WEBVTT
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I was raised to value working hard, but when you're a pastor or a church leader
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and the goal is learning to abide in Christ, today's guest, Dr.
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C.J. Wan, says there is a danger in...
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Our effort as if to say, I could replace prayer. I could replace depending on
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God by doing a lot of good work for Him. And it's a trap.
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It's a trap that many, many pastors, including myself, have experienced burnout. Why?
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Because I am doing it. I am trying.
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Leaders and pastors find health, encouragement, practical advice,
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soul care, and resources that work together to build up your local fellowship
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and the broader kingdom of God.
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Join hosts, Pastor Chris Cole and Dr. Chase Thompson from the Great Commission
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Association, led by Dr. Mike Stewart, as they explore the frontiers of ministry
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and aim for the goal of making every church flourish.
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Hello, everybody, and welcome in to episode number 24 of the Every Church Flourishing Podcast.
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We are a podcast put on by the Great Commission Association of California.
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You can get in touch with us through our website, gcasbc.org,
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and our email, office at gcasbc.org.
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Now, why would you want to get in touch with us? It's a good question.
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Here's the thing. We are looking for partners in ministry.
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And if you're a church or you're a pastor or you're a church leader in the California
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area and you feel alone and you don't have a team, we could be your team.
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So if you are out there looking and are tired of being lonely in ministry, give us a call.
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Give us an email, office at gcasbc.org. Check out our website, which is gcasbc.org.
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So if you're a pastor, church leader, anybody serious about following Jesus,
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today's show will challenge you not to try harder, but to reorder the priorities
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of your life to spend more time with God,
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trust human effort less, and prioritize listening to God over telling him what he already knows.
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After a great discussion on prayer with Dr.
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CJ, who's going to give us some practical tips on helping a church develop a
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culture of prayer, you're going to hear a severe and serious disagreement between
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myself and Pastor Christopher of the GCA, the co-host of this podcast.
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Will we debate Calvinism versus Arminianism,
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Complementarianism versus egalitarianism, or is one of us a cessationist and
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one of us a continuationist, well, it's going to be far worse and more divisive than any of those
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Our disagreement concerns Wild Bill's Ring Pop Soda.
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Well, after that divisive soda review, we will end today's episode with a couple
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of powerful prayer stories as an encouragement to all of us to pray.
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But for right now, let's go to Dr. CJ Wan for part two of an interview where
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we are discussing prayer.
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And we are back with Dr. CJ Wan of the Great Commission Association.
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And we're still talking about prayer and abiding and how pastors and leaders
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can not only themselves cultivate a life of prayer and pursuing the Lord and
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surrender, but also how they can,
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help their churches facilitate walking in that.
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And let's talk a little bit about Andrew Murray.
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Andrew Murray was a Dutch Reformed South African pastor of the 19th century.
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He wrote a book that was very instrumental in my life called Abiding in Christ
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that I read shortly after I got into ministry.
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He was just a pastor who lived a life of prayer and urged others to do it.
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Dr. CJ, you read a different book by him, Absolute Surrender, recently.
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I'm not a good surrenderer.
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I mean, I got some strong willfulness in me.
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What does Murray teach us about surrender? How does surrender work in a Christian's life?
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I think what I got out of it as I was reading, it's really the first chapter,
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and there's many good devotional topics on there. But as he introduces the topic of surrender...
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Often I think we are trying to surrender. And if you just heard what I just
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said, we are trying to surrender.
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And I think that's where I was spinning.
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I'm trying, God, to surrender more. I'm trying, I'm trying, and I'm trying.
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And what brought the fresh air from me was that, you know, Andrew Murray happened
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to be saying, no, you know what? It's 100% God.
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God is providing means and ways for you and I to surrender. It's not up to us.
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It's not what we do. It's what he does.
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And so that was really the nutshell of how I felt, what I got out of it.
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And I'm changing my positions on how I see. What does that mean to surrender?
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So how can God help us lead a surrendered life?
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Yeah, it goes back for me a long way. It goes back where I think we have learned
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to do a lot of repetitive things trying to surrender. And that might be go to
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church, pray, read Bible, do all good things.
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And it's really us trying, but he's actually telling us a different ways.
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And it wasn't crazy ideas, but it was refreshing ideas. And he said this,
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God provides and really completely owns the surrender of our lives.
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He's the one that's providing everything we need. And he gives five points.
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And he says this, first, God expects our surrender, which is,
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that's where he starts in Proverbs 3.
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Trust in the Lord with all your heart. In all your ways, acknowledge him.
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And he does start there saying, hey, this is what the Lord wants from us.
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And that is, yes, he expects our surrender. He commands our surrender.
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But then he goes on to talk about the second, third, fourth.
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Third, second is afford. He affords our surrender.
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And he says, no one can come to the Father unless the Father who sent me draws him in John 6.
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It is him who draws us, not us trying to get there.
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And it is God who works in us to will and to act, according to Philippians 2.13. So it's God who...
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Calls and expects us, but he also affords us because he's the one doing the nudging.
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He's the one that's actually calling us, drawing us to himself.
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And then he talks about the accept. He accepts our surrender.
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And this is the passage I shared on the previous one in Mark chapter 9,
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where in a boy's father, a boy with a father who came asking Jesus, he'll heal my son.
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And the real answer was, I do believe, but help me overcome my unbelief.
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And I think that's the surrender we do. Lord, I do.
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I want to, but I know that there's places I still need your help.
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And so he understands and accepts our feeble surrender at whatever level,
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whatever we can, he accepts it.
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And he fulfills number four, our surrender. And that is Philippians chapter
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one, verse six, famous verse, being confident of this, that he who began a good
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work in you will carry it onto completion. He's the one that's going to finish this.
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I'm so glad he did not leave that to me.
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He didn't leave that to chance. And he didn't say, well, let me see if I could
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get somebody else to do it. He said, no, I will carry it on to completion.
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And so he's the one that will fulfill our surrender. And lastly,
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as really he says, blesses.
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He blesses your surrender. And how he blesses it is really a picture in Revelations
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3, where he says, here I am at the, I stand at the door and knock.
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If anyone hears my voice and opens his door, I will come in and eat with him and he with me.
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And the blessing is if we are able to just let him in, cooperate and open the
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door of our heart, he says, I will come in.
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And I will be with you. And so from the start to finish, Andrew Murray was kind
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of pointing it out that from the start to finish, complete, it's him. It's not us.
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I have bought the lie or the different ideas that part of it is me.
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I have to be the one surrendering. And I gave myself credit when I did one thing well. It didn't last.
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I would not do one thing, but next week I'll be doing it again.
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And so this cycle, I think that's where I was trapped on a treadmill,
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just trying and trying and trying. And this actually says, no,
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it's 100% God. He is in charge of it all.
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Yeah, that's fantastic. Good, powerful words.
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I want to share an anecdote from the life of Andrew Murray that also has some
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great quotes in it about prayer, surrender, and the danger of prayerlessness.
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He lived to a ripe old age. I think he died in 1917 at 88.
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This story happened in 1912 when he was 83.
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He was in South Africa, like I said, with the Dutch Reformed Church.
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And one of their theology professors, and obviously things are different today
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than they were 100 years ago.
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One of their theology professors wrote an article about the powerlessness and
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the prayerlessness in the South African church.
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And a lot of the pastors read the article and they were cut to the heart about
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it. So they got together.
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They were so moved by this thing. They got together. So they had four theological
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professors, 200 ministers, pastors, missionaries, students.
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They all got together and they kind of were like.
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What do we do?
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And so they began to kind of go through that and consider, you know,
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what do we do about the powerlessness in the church?
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And they had testimonies and they talked about what's the problem,
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you know, what kind of sins are going on?
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And they began to focus in on other pastors sinning, churches not presenting
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the right doctrine, that kind of thing.
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But they got to the point where they realized they were barking up the wrong tree, essentially.
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And this is what Andrew Murray said. I'll just read a paragraph from him.
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He said, the Lord led us gradually to the sin of prayerlessness as one of the
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deepest roots of the problem.
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Not one of us could claim to be free from this.
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Nothing so reveals a defective spiritual life in a minister or a congregation
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as the lack of believing in unceasing prayer.
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Prayer is the pulse of the spiritual
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life. It is the great means by which ministers and lay people alike
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receive the blessing and power of having persevering and believing prayer preludes
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a strong and abundant life. Yeah. That's powerful stuff.
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It is. It is. And I think because of our distractions and our attempts to do
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good work for the kingdom of God, all those are nice words.
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We miss out and we somehow commingle our effort as if to say,
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I could replace prayer. I could replace depending on God by doing a lot of good
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work for him. And it's a trap.
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It's a trap that many, many pastors, including myself, have experienced burnout. Why?
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Because I am doing it. I am trying.
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I am the fuel. And you know, pastoring, essentially at its core,
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in some ways, a leadership position.
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And therefore, it attracts people to that profession, ideally, that are called by God.
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Don't get me wrong, but it also attracts people that are not all type A personalities,
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but leaders who are used to leading and having to get things done.
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And as you say, it's a trap. It's a trap. And the high 90s percent of pastors
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probably fall into that trap all the time that I got to get this done.
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All of this rests on me. So for the pastor out there kind of feeling that,
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what are some ways that they can seek God's presence as the center of their life?
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Well, it sounds bad, but I would say stop trying. That would be the first way for you to detach.
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Start by stop trying. And sometimes we believe, whether it's directly,
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indirectly, we believe that what I do, what we do is good and it matters.
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And time and time again, we do a lot of things.
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If this year didn't work out, we'll do better next year. And if this plan doesn't
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work out, we'll go to plan, you know, 2.0. And we're very good at doing that
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as a way to solve and try to do things.
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But as Andrew Murray and others have kind of spilled into my life,
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I feel like, you know, maybe what we need to do first is just to be with God.
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And if we did that and hear his heartbeat and know who he is and how he wants
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to do and what he wants to do.
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May be very different than what we envision as success. And I think in order
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for us to reach a certain success or certain measurement that we believe is good, we do things.
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And I think that's the trap again. And I think for listeners and pastors,
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I'm not saying surrender or throw in the towel.
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That's not what I'm saying. I think what we need to do is spiritually come before
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God, broken and say, God, I'm just gonna stop trying. I just wanna spend more time with you.
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If I can't be a healthy person in front of you, What good am I on the pulpit?
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What good am I in ministry? What
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Plans can I execute that'll advance the kingdom of God.
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It's his kingdom, his work, his church, his people. And yet sometimes we believe
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we are given this amazing responsibility to grow the church of God.
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And I think that's, again, a words and word plays that we have bought into.
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Grow healthy, grow churches and other things. Yes, we would like to see that,
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but that's up to him. But will he use me to do that?
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That's also up to him. But we could definitely spend time with God and have
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him use us in ways that honors him.
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I think one of the things that sort of wages war against
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what you're talking about is we have all seen examples of churches that appear
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to thrive and explode in growth and have hundreds, thousands of people come to it with
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just pristine worship and incredible talent and people crawling all over the
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place and activities and actions.
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And it appears that I'm not speaking of every large church, obviously.
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I'm speaking of a certain subset of them that appear to be built on principles
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and business acumen and talent and things like that.
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And a pastor of a smaller or medium-sized church will look at that and say,
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well, I want to lead a church like that.
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I need to do those kinds of things.
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And Paul talks about in his letters that there will be works we do on earth
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that survive into eternity and are rewards essentially in heaven.
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And then there will be ones that burn up. And my personal thinking,
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and I'm not going to be judging any of these things, so my opinion is zero meaning.
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But I think a lot of those kind of works that are human built,
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effort powered, and talent fueled are going to be those works that burn up.
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They appear monumental and amazing. And a pastor hearing you say,
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stop trying and trust in God more.
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They're like, oh, I'm never going to build a megachurch by stopping trying, Dr. CJ.
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So I would just like to encourage the person that hears that and his flesh is reacting. I get it.
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I know why that sounds hard because it's against my wiring too.
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But some of these things that look like the kingdom of God are really Christian
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city and they're going to burn up.
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They're not the kingdom of God. They're a Potomacan village.
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They're a facade. They're not fruit that remains. Yeah.
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So let's assume we still have pastors and leaders that are tracking with us
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and want to build this culture of prayer in their church and not go the fleshly way.
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So, Dr. CJ, what are some elements that we need to see a culture of prayer in
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churches and in our own lives?
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What are the elements that kind of help produce that culture?
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Again, the prayer retreat has given us some insight into some of these elements.
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And I was blowing away my mind that why didn't I know this? Why didn't I put this together?
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We had other people who are smarter than us doing this. But it talks about three
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elements. The retreat actually talks about three elements needed for prayer
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culture in churches and Christian life. One is theological convictions.
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You certainly have to have a conviction from the Lord that this is what it is.
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Second, they talk about intentional preparedness, intentional preparation of
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in order for the conviction to become realized, there has to be work.
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There has to be intentionality. And then the third piece really crushed me and
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that is humble desperation.
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How much do you want this? Do you really want this or not? And I think God has
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a way of testing us. And I think we have fallen into the trap,
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again, of creating unsustainable things, mainly because we operate out of one
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of these circles rather than all three.
00:17:23.963 --> 00:17:28.419
And the idea was we need all three. We need all three to continue to work.
00:17:28.419 --> 00:17:33.589
Otherwise, we are gonna have a, sometimes emotional rushes, like a mountaintop experience.
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:39.033
Can't be reproduced. It's not sustainable. And sometimes it just becomes ritualistic.
00:17:39.166 --> 00:17:43.098
We have a Bible study, we have a prayer meeting, and it becomes something that
00:17:43.098 --> 00:17:46.777
just is there, not filled with the Spirit of God.
00:17:46.899 --> 00:17:50.498
Without power, without presence, no transformation happens there,
00:17:50.498 --> 00:17:55.140
and without joy, on and on and on. So here's how they put it.
00:17:55.384 --> 00:17:58.178
And I think these are the byproducts that we have to be careful.
00:17:58.178 --> 00:18:00.980
And as you think about these three, theological convictions,
00:18:01.137 --> 00:18:05.598
intentional preparation, humble desperation, there's byproducts that happens
00:18:05.598 --> 00:18:07.331
if you have just two of these things.
00:18:07.551 --> 00:18:11.478
So this is how I understood it. I said, if you have theological conviction with
00:18:11.478 --> 00:18:15.266
humble desperation, what you have is unsustainability.
00:18:15.388 --> 00:18:18.798
Meaning you could do this crusade one time. It won't be sustained.
00:18:19.098 --> 00:18:22.578
You just can't do it over. Because what you're looking for is something that
00:18:22.578 --> 00:18:24.595
has no real preparation.
00:18:24.711 --> 00:18:27.201
It could be a mountain type experience, but that's just one time.
00:18:27.317 --> 00:18:29.918
And sometimes we sell out for that. We go on a mission trip.
00:18:29.918 --> 00:18:34.069
We go on a retreat, and this is great mountaintop, but then it's not sustained.
00:18:34.806 --> 00:18:38.818
Second part is humble desperation with intentional preparation.
00:18:38.818 --> 00:18:40.472
That leads to emotional things.
00:18:40.605 --> 00:18:44.098
If you don't have the theological conviction and a biblical conviction of what
00:18:44.098 --> 00:18:47.748
it is that you're trying to get to, you're going to have an emotional high.
00:18:47.748 --> 00:18:51.188
You're going to find yourself seeking emotional, spiritual things,
00:18:51.315 --> 00:18:57.118
and it becomes exciting. And you and I know sometimes a worship experience feels like that.
00:18:57.438 --> 00:19:03.428
It's high. It's intentional. It has hunger, but sometimes it lacks theological conviction.
00:19:03.428 --> 00:19:07.278
What is it? Who is the center of this whole thing? And that has to be God.
00:19:07.278 --> 00:19:12.467
Is God pleased with this worship? Or is it man-pleasing? Is it for drawing a crowd?
00:19:12.734 --> 00:19:16.722
So all of those becomes an emotional byproduct. And sometimes we buy into that.
00:19:17.095 --> 00:19:21.637
And that's a negative thing in my mind. And the third is, if you have intentional
00:19:21.637 --> 00:19:24.797
preparation with theological conviction, if that's all you got,
00:19:24.797 --> 00:19:29.448
what you're going to get is ritualistic events. It just becomes regiment.
00:19:29.576 --> 00:19:35.147
Dry, dry prayer meetings and Bible studies. Worship becomes a drag.
00:19:35.147 --> 00:19:39.347
Why? Because you don't have this humble desperation for the presence of God.
00:19:39.347 --> 00:19:43.403
Is God necessary in this prayer meeting? Is God the focus of this worship?
00:19:43.927 --> 00:19:46.921
Are we actually hungering after Him? Wanting more of Him?
00:19:47.147 --> 00:19:51.177
Are we humbling ourselves before Him? And so it takes those three things.
00:19:51.177 --> 00:19:55.177
And, you know, as I was thinking through it, if we are brutally honest with
00:19:55.177 --> 00:19:59.325
ourselves, oftentimes we just have the theological conviction.
00:19:59.470 --> 00:20:05.223
We lack intentional preparation, and we sometimes don't have the humble desperation.
00:20:05.467 --> 00:20:05.751
Yeah.
00:20:05.873 --> 00:20:09.623
So all we have is theological conviction. Go and make disciple.
00:20:10.203 --> 00:20:15.230
No question whatsoever, but how are you going to make that happen? The preparation part.
00:20:15.346 --> 00:20:19.253
But how are you desperately leaning on to God's power rather than ours?
00:20:19.409 --> 00:20:24.800
And so it leads to a place of just circle where we are either going to
00:20:25.260 --> 00:20:31.260
unsustainable programs or emotional programs or ritualistic programs rather
00:20:31.260 --> 00:20:35.660
than something that creates a culture where people are seeing a difference in
00:20:35.660 --> 00:20:37.364
their life, but also in the church life.
00:20:37.562 --> 00:20:39.900
And so those are stuff that I have learned.
00:20:40.320 --> 00:20:46.194
I can't speak to it as if this is mine, but those are points that we got out of the prayer retreat.
00:20:46.350 --> 00:20:50.800
Yeah. Awesome. And I think you're absolutely right. We have the conviction. We need to pray.
00:20:50.946 --> 00:20:56.150
We need to pray to make disciples. We know that, but we lack the others.
00:20:56.150 --> 00:21:00.350
It's like we're saying we believe help our unbelief. because there's a lot of
00:21:00.350 --> 00:21:05.777
unbelief there that doesn't underpin our statement that we value prayer.
00:21:05.917 --> 00:21:09.020
So is it your sense, Dr. CJ,
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:14.130
that most of the churches in the association that you're familiar with,
00:21:14.130 --> 00:21:18.400
the Great Commission Association, and maybe the churches in the West in California
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:21.910
specifically, I don't want to say, are we praying enough?
00:21:21.910 --> 00:21:25.310
Because that implies sort of we could pray two or three hours a week together
00:21:25.310 --> 00:21:28.028
and kind of fill the bucket. I'm not sure it's that way.
00:21:28.295 --> 00:21:34.251
Are we praying aright? Are we properly oriented towards the prayer life? Yeah.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:41.438
I would stand to say that I think we have missed the focus and the purpose of prayer.
00:21:41.438 --> 00:21:45.268
And because of that, we have not really reaped the benefit of prayer.
00:21:45.268 --> 00:21:51.381
And again, the goal is to be with the Lord, to spend time with Him, to hear Him, not us.
00:21:51.509 --> 00:21:56.088
But I think prayer often has become a time where we are telling God everything
00:21:56.088 --> 00:21:57.801
we need. He already knows them all.
00:21:58.051 --> 00:22:02.888
He knows how to best serve us in the perfect way. But we spend a lot of our
00:22:02.888 --> 00:22:06.748
time when we say prayer, it's really us telling God what we think we need.
00:22:06.748 --> 00:22:09.562
God, we have all the plans, but we need you to bless it.
00:22:09.690 --> 00:22:12.935
And if things don't go right, we need your help to fix our plan.
00:22:13.518 --> 00:22:17.440
You could see how that sounds bad. Theologically, however you put it,
00:22:17.707 --> 00:22:19.146
that just doesn't sound right.
00:22:19.425 --> 00:22:23.318
And so I would agree to that statement that sometimes many of us in churches
00:22:23.318 --> 00:22:28.038
and pastors and leaders have adopted the idea that prayer is really about us
00:22:28.038 --> 00:22:30.095
telling him. But I think it's the opposite.
00:22:30.234 --> 00:22:33.670
Prayer time is just we listening, us listening to Him.
00:22:34.158 --> 00:22:37.438
I have to be the first to admit I am not trained in this.
00:22:37.738 --> 00:22:43.167
I don't quite know exactly how to do this well and very uncomfortable being in quietness.
00:22:43.394 --> 00:22:47.294
As Psalm 49 would say, hey, be still and just know that He is God.
00:22:47.543 --> 00:22:51.740
Well, we don't know and want to spend that time because it just becomes awkward after five minutes.
00:22:52.538 --> 00:22:55.908
Let's just be honest. I think that's true with many of us. We just don't know
00:22:55.908 --> 00:22:58.793
what to do by just spending time with God.
00:22:58.967 --> 00:23:02.488
And if we feel like, how am I going to spend time with God is just say a lot
00:23:02.488 --> 00:23:05.446
of things. And I think that's really where the miss is.
00:23:05.597 --> 00:23:11.038
And I think our God is dying, bad word. I think God is desiring to speak to
00:23:11.038 --> 00:23:15.458
us, to be with us, to tell us he loves us, tell us that everything is going
00:23:15.458 --> 00:23:18.019
to be okay. To say, I have a better plan for you.
00:23:18.234 --> 00:23:21.351
Great plan. You can't even fathom what I'm going to try to do.
00:23:21.967 --> 00:23:24.867
We don't give him the time and we're not listening. And so, yeah,
00:23:24.867 --> 00:23:29.107
so when it comes to that topic of prayer, I think we have jumped off on the
00:23:29.107 --> 00:23:32.927
wrong end where we made it into us talking to God.
00:23:33.066 --> 00:23:35.907
It should be us listening to him. Yeah, wow.
00:23:36.487 --> 00:23:41.987
That's awesome. So I imagine people listening right now, their consciences are
00:23:41.987 --> 00:23:48.387
poked and prodded and their heart hopefully is lifted up and drawn towards this,
00:23:49.795 --> 00:23:54.527
reorientation of their lives in the direction of prayer and understanding prayer
00:23:54.527 --> 00:23:58.507
is not just talking and telling God things and asking for things.
00:23:58.507 --> 00:24:03.767
So those leaders that are listening, how should they start? Where should they
00:24:03.767 --> 00:24:07.895
start in this reorientation process on prayer?
00:24:08.104 --> 00:24:12.507
The same few words I would say, you just have to come to a place where you're
00:24:12.507 --> 00:24:15.607
saying, Lord, I'm just gonna stop and I'm just gonna be with you.
00:24:15.607 --> 00:24:19.197
And that's just creating a time and space. I don't know how many times I have
00:24:19.197 --> 00:24:21.597
said that to myself. I have to create time and space for God.
00:24:21.597 --> 00:24:25.147
And, you know, you say, well, all my life is God's. No, not necessarily,
00:24:25.147 --> 00:24:28.589
because you're not giving it to him. You're actually taking control of a lot of it.
00:24:28.734 --> 00:24:33.367
You have to be intentional of giving time and space for God to do whatever he
00:24:33.367 --> 00:24:36.227
wants to do. And you don't just say, well, you have my time,
00:24:36.227 --> 00:24:39.807
God, between 8 and 8.30. You have to be willing to say, Lord,
00:24:39.807 --> 00:24:42.294
you could have all the time you want or you need.
00:24:42.421 --> 00:24:47.077
Because we should be willing to say, Lord, this time I spend with you is the
00:24:47.077 --> 00:24:52.029
most important thing. It's the most important thing I can do or I have to do today.
00:24:52.348 --> 00:24:55.857
But again, distractions and urgencies and other things get in our way.
00:24:55.857 --> 00:24:59.747
So I think practically, if we could start just by saying, you know,
00:24:59.747 --> 00:25:04.047
Monday afternoons or Monday mornings or Tuesday nights are going to be just
00:25:04.047 --> 00:25:08.647
time with God and turn off your phone, stop the TV and just be outside or be
00:25:09.307 --> 00:25:10.453
With the scripture and just.
00:25:10.789 --> 00:25:14.886
Just spend time and stay there until the Holy Spirit sets you free.
00:25:15.486 --> 00:25:19.317
Now that sounds crazy. It sounds like, what do you mean?
00:25:19.433 --> 00:25:23.706
Well, you will know if you are willing to listen and sit in the presence of
00:25:23.706 --> 00:25:26.503
God, he will do what he wants to do.
00:25:26.805 --> 00:25:31.798
And he will tell you pretty clearly, hey, time is done and go attend to your things.
00:25:31.931 --> 00:25:36.156
And I'm learning how to do this. And I wish I would have learned this when I
00:25:36.156 --> 00:25:40.586
was in the 20s and 30s so that I would have a different way of approaching ministry
00:25:40.586 --> 00:25:45.948
in life because just being with the Lord is most important rather than me trying and trying harder.
00:25:47.382 --> 00:25:53.686
That alone, I think, carving out some time and space to be alone with God. Try it.
00:25:54.435 --> 00:25:59.540
It will be difficult at first, but I think you will be able to meet and be in
00:25:59.540 --> 00:26:01.842
the presence of God in a fresh new way.
00:26:01.970 --> 00:26:02.237
Yeah.
00:26:02.388 --> 00:26:08.180
Amen. Well, before we get to our final question, which is about prayer resources,
00:26:08.180 --> 00:26:11.840
I want to tell a quick story that happened this past Sunday at our church,
00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:13.435
Valley Baptist in Salinas.
00:26:13.591 --> 00:26:16.730
Last year, it's a good church. Good people. Love the people there.
00:26:16.730 --> 00:26:22.980
Last year, I tried to start a pre-service prayer gathering for a few weeks.
00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:28.750
I announced it. I emailed it, texted, got there early and met in one of our side rooms.
00:26:28.750 --> 00:26:33.430
And I think maybe the most people, and now we've had prayer things at night
00:26:33.430 --> 00:26:37.790
and other times that people come to, but this one, it didn't go over very well.
00:26:37.790 --> 00:26:41.550
Maybe the most we had was like three people. And just speaking frankly,
00:26:41.550 --> 00:26:46.040
finally, I just kind of gave up and we didn't do it anymore and I didn't make a big deal out of it.
00:26:46.040 --> 00:26:52.994
Well, my son, JC is a ministry student at Cal Baptist and full of zeal.
00:26:53.139 --> 00:26:56.930
And he's home for the summer. And he's like, dad, we got to get the people to
00:26:56.930 --> 00:27:00.680
pray and get them together. And he has all these fiery ideas.
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:02.555
And I'm like, all right, bud, let's, let's do it.
00:27:02.689 --> 00:27:07.370
So he led his first prayer time this past Sunday before service.
00:27:07.370 --> 00:27:09.770
And I thought, you know, he's going to be two or three people there.
00:27:09.770 --> 00:27:11.245
He'll probably be bummed out.
00:27:11.385 --> 00:27:13.480
Well, there were like 12 people there.
00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:18.530
And I looked around. And part of my sarcastic self wanted to say to them,
00:27:18.676 --> 00:27:23.981
hey, where were you guys last year when I invited you like 10 times?
00:27:24.243 --> 00:27:28.920
My son says one thing and you show up in here. So I felt a little goofy about
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:32.980
it. I didn't say anything. But later that afternoon, I told that to my wife,
00:27:32.980 --> 00:27:37.221
Janet, and I said, hey, it's like I almost wanted to be sarcastic with everybody.
00:27:37.575 --> 00:27:41.047
And she said, you know what JC did? And I'm like, no, what did he do?
00:27:41.175 --> 00:27:47.877
She said, he went around before it started and individually invited like 15
00:27:47.877 --> 00:27:50.625
people to come pray. And they did.
00:27:50.776 --> 00:27:54.857
And I was like, you know what? I put it in the bulletin. I announced it from the pulpit.
00:27:55.197 --> 00:27:58.357
I emailed and texted, but I didn't do that. So that was,
00:27:58.917 --> 00:28:02.914
I say all of that story to say that,
00:28:03.417 --> 00:28:10.117
some people will respond to a personal invitation into a life of prayer more
00:28:10.117 --> 00:28:14.487
than they will respond to an announcement in a bulletin or from the pulpit.
00:28:14.487 --> 00:28:15.650
So personal.
00:28:15.865 --> 00:28:20.697
Yeah, personal. So I think, Pastor, if you've heard all this and you're sparked,
00:28:20.697 --> 00:28:24.137
and I hope you are, I hope the Holy Spirit is moving in your heart.
00:28:24.137 --> 00:28:28.687
I want to encourage you to reach out to people individually and personally and
00:28:28.687 --> 00:28:33.419
invite them to join you on this journey of pursuing the Lord.
00:28:33.843 --> 00:28:38.627
You know, just an interesting fact that we learned is if you want to create
00:28:38.627 --> 00:28:43.367
a cultural prayer, at least these people that have done it at Fournier,
00:28:43.367 --> 00:28:46.445
Texas, says, you know what you need is 16% of your people.
00:28:46.584 --> 00:28:47.697
16.
00:28:47.697 --> 00:28:51.487
16% of the people. If you have that, it could do the math.
00:28:51.487 --> 00:28:55.537
If you have that, it'll start to create a culture of prayer.
00:28:55.537 --> 00:29:00.607
So you don't need 50% or you don't need 80% to show up. You just need 16% of
00:29:00.607 --> 00:29:03.802
your congregation, you know, to come and start.
00:29:03.981 --> 00:29:07.906
And I think once you do that, it becomes something that will become a culture
00:29:08.045 --> 00:29:13.595
of prayer. And so good news, you know, maybe happy news that you don't have to try to hit 70%.
00:29:13.856 --> 00:29:18.093
You don't have to try that. Just work towards, as you said, invite 15 people.
00:29:18.308 --> 00:29:24.885
That would be more than 16%. If you have that, then it becomes a culture. It becomes normal.
00:29:25.917 --> 00:29:28.664
And people are going to say, hey, something is happening over there.
00:29:28.786 --> 00:29:30.412
And so they would love to be part of that.
00:29:30.574 --> 00:29:32.078
Fantastic. Great advice.
00:29:32.513 --> 00:29:35.869
So one last question before we get to our closing quotes.
00:29:36.209 --> 00:29:40.409
We already talked about this on previous podcast episodes, but I don't think
00:29:40.409 --> 00:29:41.849
we can talk about it enough.
00:29:41.849 --> 00:29:51.133
What are some resources, writers, blogs, books, sermons, any kind of thing in your life that
00:29:51.569 --> 00:29:58.499
helps you have a healthier prayer, surrender, abiding life that you would recommend to our listeners?
00:29:58.499 --> 00:30:03.369
Oh, boy. There's obviously many that's out there, but I'm just going to list
00:30:03.369 --> 00:30:07.351
some of those that are recent. I would say Absolute Surrender by Andrew Murray.
00:30:07.508 --> 00:30:11.959
I think that'd be very helpful. Just open your eyes to just devoting and being
00:30:11.959 --> 00:30:13.307
with the Lord and surrendering.
00:30:13.452 --> 00:30:15.589
The Pursuit of God by A.W. Tozer.
00:30:16.512 --> 00:30:21.459
Again, what does that mean to really want to pursue God? And not to have Him
00:30:21.459 --> 00:30:24.023
do our bidding, but really wanting Him.
00:30:24.174 --> 00:30:28.169
Old Path, New Power by Daniel Henderson. I mentioned that in the last podcast as well.
00:30:28.169 --> 00:30:32.949
That has changed me to see prayer not just as an activity or program,
00:30:32.949 --> 00:30:37.285
but really for us to do this as a way of life and to experience new power,
00:30:37.436 --> 00:30:41.819
the power that God has and wants to do in and through us. And so that's important.
00:30:41.964 --> 00:30:46.479
I would say for those that may be having a hard time finding the words to talk
00:30:46.479 --> 00:30:51.479
to God or be with God, for me, I'm using this collection of Puritan prayers
00:30:51.479 --> 00:30:53.278
edited by Arthur Bennett,
00:30:53.481 --> 00:30:54.969
The Valley of Vision.
00:30:55.548 --> 00:31:00.708
Just walking through. And it's helping me to see and ask for prayers and to pray that.
00:31:01.109 --> 00:31:04.435
Words that I can't, I'm not eloquent enough to put together.
00:31:04.598 --> 00:31:08.992
Yet praying that it becomes a poem, it becomes a prayer, it becomes a meditation
00:31:09.126 --> 00:31:11.790
and a cry from my heart. So that would be another.
00:31:11.941 --> 00:31:17.180
Other devotionals and books by Bill Ellis, if you have not read any of his work, I think you should.
00:31:17.800 --> 00:31:23.680
It's very helpful. And they have changed how I view prayer, but not just prayer,
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:26.940
but how I want to be with the Lord.
00:31:27.260 --> 00:31:31.154
And so I hope people don't just try to learn how to pray.
00:31:31.323 --> 00:31:35.926
That's one of many ways for us to try to get to the presence of God.
00:31:36.147 --> 00:31:40.520
And if we're with the presence, in the presence of God, then boy, he can do all things.
00:31:41.260 --> 00:31:41.584
Amen.
00:31:41.787 --> 00:31:42.257
Amen.
00:31:42.373 --> 00:31:49.508
I will throw out one that I have not read yet, not in full, but it's on my upcoming list.
00:31:49.641 --> 00:31:53.110
It Happens After Prayer by H.B.
00:31:53.110 --> 00:31:58.980
Charles. And here's a great quote from that book. He says that prayer is arguably
00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:04.760
the most objective measurement of our dependence upon God. Think of it this way.
00:32:05.660 --> 00:32:09.796
The things you pray about are the things you trust God to handle.
00:32:09.907 --> 00:32:15.183
The things you neglect to pray about are the things you trust you can handle on your own.
00:32:15.410 --> 00:32:15.960
Amen.
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:21.250
Yeah. That's strong. That's strong. Well, in closing, do you have any favorite
00:32:21.250 --> 00:32:23.840
quotes on prayer like that to share with us?
00:32:24.320 --> 00:32:28.640
I would say quote on prayer. I'm not sure if this is going to qualify as a quote
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:33.630
on prayer, but I have a, I written up a note on my desk next to my desk,
00:32:33.775 --> 00:32:38.820
a phrase that I pulled from Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzaro.
00:32:38.971 --> 00:32:43.150
And he reads this way, and I think I've paraphrased some, but quote it this way.
00:32:43.307 --> 00:32:48.740
Am I grateful for the privilege of representing Jesus and have a level of influence
00:32:48.740 --> 00:32:50.778
in the lives of other people? Am I
00:32:51.098 --> 00:32:57.659
Am I grateful or, and this is a part that cuts me, or do I resent people treating
00:32:57.659 --> 00:32:59.701
me like the servant I claim to be?
00:33:00.450 --> 00:33:03.889
And I think I'm in the middle there. I'm cut to the piece where,
00:33:03.889 --> 00:33:06.339
you know, I say I'm a servant of God.
00:33:06.999 --> 00:33:10.969
I'm serving for the kingdom of God, for the churches, people that he has placed
00:33:10.969 --> 00:33:13.262
in my life. So one, am I grateful?
00:33:13.506 --> 00:33:18.893
So that's a prayer. Lord, help me keep my heart tender so that I'm grateful that I could serve.
00:33:19.032 --> 00:33:24.913
The second part is the challenge. I do find myself getting resentful or frustrated
00:33:25.110 --> 00:33:28.801
and, you know, being critical at times of people.
00:33:29.068 --> 00:33:32.783
Why? It usually comes down to how I feel like I'm being treated.
00:33:32.887 --> 00:33:37.050
Am I being treated, recognized for what I do, or am I being appreciated?
00:33:37.270 --> 00:33:41.139
On and on. And really, the second part of that quote really hits me hard,
00:33:41.139 --> 00:33:46.589
and that is, I am a servant of God, and I am doing what I say I am.
00:33:46.589 --> 00:33:50.529
But why is it that my heart is resentful at people? And so those two things
00:33:50.529 --> 00:33:53.699
put together, I call it the power struggle indicator of my heart.
00:33:54.539 --> 00:33:57.907
Yes, Lord, I am fully grateful. And sometimes I'm not.
00:33:58.180 --> 00:34:03.973
And that's a check I got to do. The other part is sometimes I'm just resentful, frustrated, critical.
00:34:04.107 --> 00:34:08.959
Well, that's another check I got to do because I want to be a servant of the Lord.
00:34:09.279 --> 00:34:14.163
And I can't continue to have this power struggle have its way in my life.
00:34:14.888 --> 00:34:16.583
Being grateful, not being resentful.
00:34:16.728 --> 00:34:22.317
Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. I will add to that a quote from Edward Payson,
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:26.327
whose nickname was Praying Payson of Portland.
00:34:26.468 --> 00:34:27.653
But I think it's Portland,
00:34:27.653 --> 00:34:32.587
Pennsylvania, not Portland out our way. He says, prayer is the first thing,
00:34:32.738 --> 00:34:37.623
the second thing, the third thing necessary to a minister. Pray.
00:34:37.983 --> 00:34:40.993
Then my dear brother, pray, pray, pray.
00:34:41.103 --> 00:34:41.858
And more, yeah.
00:34:42.142 --> 00:34:46.281
Amen. Good counsel. Well, Dr. CJ, thank you so much for your time.
00:34:46.600 --> 00:34:52.817
If somebody wants to get in touch with you, they can go to the GCASBC.org website
00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:57.439
where you will find Dr. CJ there, GCASBC.org.
00:34:57.689 --> 00:35:01.753
I think we've had a wonderful conversation on prayer. I know my heart is poked
00:35:01.753 --> 00:35:07.115
and prodded and pulled and hopeful about walking in the,
00:35:07.776 --> 00:35:18.816
In a life that recognizes the reality of abiding being crucial and not my own
00:35:18.816 --> 00:35:20.656
power being the fuel that,
00:35:21.376 --> 00:35:23.932
leads my church, my family, my life.
00:35:24.222 --> 00:35:27.256
So thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for pointing us that way.
00:35:27.256 --> 00:35:29.673
Good day and Godspeed to you.
00:35:29.824 --> 00:35:30.265
Thank you.
00:35:30.387 --> 00:35:35.566
It almost seems sad to go from that very encouraging word on prayer to a potentially
00:35:35.566 --> 00:35:40.676
explosive and very divisive soda review. But that is what we do here.
00:35:40.676 --> 00:35:44.487
We drink the wild and wacky sodas so you don't have to.
00:35:44.708 --> 00:35:49.746
Maybe, like me, you will feel compassion for Wild Bill, maker of today's soda,
00:35:49.746 --> 00:35:56.510
when you hear Pastor Christopher unfairly criticize him for his soda's description by saying,
00:35:56.817 --> 00:36:00.457
as if adding adjectives would improve its quality.
00:36:00.759 --> 00:36:04.766
Well, fortunately, this will be just a brief intermission. After a few minutes
00:36:04.766 --> 00:36:09.556
in a very short soda civil war, we will go back to the deep end and finish up
00:36:09.556 --> 00:36:11.573
with some great prayer stories.
00:36:11.858 --> 00:36:18.429
Okay, we are back for another excellent soda review. Well, I think it's going to be good...
00:36:18.754 --> 00:36:24.166
Pastor Christopher O'Ye of Little Faith, what do you expect out of this?
00:36:24.166 --> 00:36:29.596
Well, given that this soda has the words Ring Pop, Watermelon,
00:36:29.596 --> 00:36:36.976
and Craft all in its title, as if adding adjectives was going to improve its quality,00:36:37.476 --> 00:36:41.836
I'm going to say that I have relatively low expectations from00:36:42.276 --> 00:36:50.176
Wild Bill's craft beverage company, and it features a prominent green ring pop00:36:50.476 --> 00:36:53.776
on there, but it also says it's naturally flavored.00:36:54.375 --> 00:36:59.336
I'm curious, Pastor Chase, how did we come upon this particular soda?00:36:59.336 --> 00:37:04.036
This was also chosen for us by our friend of the show, Pastor Jason,00:37:04.036 --> 00:37:08.666
who is here live in studio with us today, and who also chose the bacon soda00:37:08.666 --> 00:37:13.596
we recently had, and who said, it's not that bad, guys.00:37:13.596 --> 00:37:15.026
He did. He did say that.00:37:15.026 --> 00:37:20.526
So I don't think he's crazy he's a great neighbor but i don't know i wonder00:37:20.526 --> 00:37:22.417
about the bacon soda take00:37:22.626 --> 00:37:27.866
Well and it says it's a limited edition a limited edition soda probably00:37:27.866 --> 00:37:29.900
Would be watermelon ring pop00:37:30.051 --> 00:37:35.326
And it uses pure cane sugar it's gluten-free i think they are trying to make00:37:35.326 --> 00:37:39.037
you really appreciate the soda00:37:39.791 --> 00:37:46.311
And on the back, it says, ah, sweet life, which really just solidifies for me00:37:46.731 --> 00:37:50.031
that this is going to be mediocre at best.00:37:50.431 --> 00:37:53.931
Well, Pastor Christopher, let me ask you a question. What city were you born in?00:37:54.231 --> 00:37:56.771
I was born in Asheville, North Carolina.00:37:56.771 --> 00:38:00.611
Well, I thought you might have said Moscow or St. Petersburg or something.00:38:00.611 --> 00:38:00.911
Okay.00:38:01.351 --> 00:38:06.251
With your anti-ring pop, anti-watermelon take.00:38:06.811 --> 00:38:09.426
You know, I was thinking maybe you're a comrade or something.00:38:09.676 --> 00:38:15.857
I mean, this even has a Western horse guy on it. This is an all-American beverage, brother.00:38:16.411 --> 00:38:20.391
That's sort of my point. I mean, I'm like looking at it. It's like all extra.00:38:20.600 --> 00:38:23.531
Like everything is like extra, extra.00:38:23.531 --> 00:38:25.531
It's a pick me, girl. It's a try hard.00:38:25.531 --> 00:38:30.857
Yes, yes. It's like it can't rest in the sufficiency of the soda.00:38:31.038 --> 00:38:34.491
On a recent podcast, we did all the thing about the sufficiency of scripture.00:38:34.491 --> 00:38:35.151
Yes, yes.00:38:35.151 --> 00:38:39.467
This is not trusting in its sufficiency of flavor. This is like,00:38:39.641 --> 00:38:41.341
we've got to sell this somehow.00:38:41.613 --> 00:38:47.146
We made XYZ number of thousands of gallons of it. We've got to get it out there.00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:53.231
And so we're going to just like send it over to marketing and let an AI generate the campaign for it.00:38:53.231 --> 00:38:56.927
Oh, buddy, it might have done that. I see some signs of this.00:38:57.056 --> 00:39:00.681
And I will say it's ingredients, carbonated water, cane sugar.00:39:00.681 --> 00:39:01.951
Cane sugar, that sounds good.00:39:02.443 --> 00:39:05.665
Got 170 calories for the can00:39:05.961 --> 00:39:06.771
It's not for00:39:06.771 --> 00:39:11.281
Dieters no and or diabetics we're gonna have to get our blood sugar tested afterwards00:39:11.281 --> 00:39:17.591
if we drink it all okay the bacon soda also had 170 calories and we only had00:39:17.591 --> 00:39:20.991
a little bit pastor jason had a lot of it i hope he's gonna be okay00:39:21.331 --> 00:39:22.651
We do hope he makes it home00:39:22.971 --> 00:39:27.356
Yeah okay i think it's probably time to taste this okay or at least smell it00:39:29.112 --> 00:39:29.802
It's green.00:39:29.802 --> 00:39:30.392
What is that?00:39:30.392 --> 00:39:32.039
It looks radioactive a little bit.00:39:32.149 --> 00:39:36.552
Like a bright green. Bright green. Brighter than Mountain Dew.00:39:36.572 --> 00:39:38.170
It's got a strong smell.00:39:38.361 --> 00:39:38.930
Very.00:39:39.087 --> 00:39:43.972
Apple? Is that apple? No, it's supposed to be watermelon. I smell apple. It smells good.00:39:43.972 --> 00:39:46.999
Well, you had high hopes for this, brother. So let me just say,00:39:47.109 --> 00:39:49.212
best of luck to you. Amen. Let's go.00:39:49.212 --> 00:39:52.542
To grace and optimism. I love it.00:39:52.542 --> 00:39:54.813
How do you talk me into these things?00:39:55.412 --> 00:39:57.312
I love it. You don't like this?00:39:57.912 --> 00:39:58.782
You love this?00:39:58.782 --> 00:40:03.512
This is like candy in a can, man. I feel like a fourth grade boy, man. I would00:40:03.512 --> 00:40:04.672
Kill this in00:40:04.672 --> 00:40:05.638
Elementary school.00:40:05.743 --> 00:40:07.932
It's way too sweet for adult Chase,00:40:07.932 --> 00:40:11.403
But fourth grade Chase loves this.00:40:11.570 --> 00:40:14.856
I'm pretty sure a second grade me would have liked this.00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:19.952
But when I thought all things sugar, it's very, very sweet.00:40:20.086 --> 00:40:24.192
I don't get a lot of watermelon flavor. No, I don't either. It does have kind00:40:24.192 --> 00:40:31.212
of an Apple-esque, like an Apple Jolly Rancher, but not the Watermelon Jolly Rancher.00:40:31.752 --> 00:40:31.963
Nope.00:40:32.433 --> 00:40:35.891
It's not quite apple, and it's certainly not watermelon.00:40:36.991 --> 00:40:38.881
It doesn't taste like hubba-bubba.00:40:38.881 --> 00:40:41.971
No, no, no. It says naturally flavored. You might be right.00:40:41.971 --> 00:40:45.951
This might be an AI, like maybe an earlier version of ChatGPT,00:40:46.331 --> 00:40:51.841
maybe ChatGPT 3.5. They plugged in, hey, make a watermelon soda.00:40:51.841 --> 00:40:54.261
And it was like, okay, here. Here's one.00:40:54.261 --> 00:40:57.011
Okay, now wait a second. I did just have like my third taste.00:40:57.591 --> 00:41:00.461
And it could be that I'm now delusional from the sugar.00:41:00.461 --> 00:41:01.851
Your blood sugar is spiking.00:41:02.571 --> 00:41:07.311
But it does have a little bit of a watermelon flavor as I just let it rest on00:41:07.311 --> 00:41:11.801
my tongue here as we do the proper taste testing.00:41:11.801 --> 00:41:16.271
Well, the flavor of watermelon in and of itself is difficult.00:41:16.271 --> 00:41:19.171
Are we talking about artificial watermelon, like watermelon candy flavor?00:41:19.271 --> 00:41:21.451
No, I'm talking about like the fruit watermelon.00:41:21.451 --> 00:41:23.081
Oh, this definitely doesn't taste like a watermelon.00:41:23.081 --> 00:41:28.101
No, no, not a fruit. Yeah, it's a difficult to describe kind of flavor.00:41:28.101 --> 00:41:30.771
The Lord would not have made something that tasted like this.00:41:32.111 --> 00:41:37.991
He may not have. He may not have. Whatever AI made this, I think this is pretty good.00:41:39.031 --> 00:41:45.511
Other than the high sugar content, and I have a rule, I try not to get my sugar through drinks.00:41:45.831 --> 00:41:47.821
Where's this mate, by the way?00:41:47.821 --> 00:41:52.671
Let's see. Millington, New Jersey. That's part of America, isn't it?00:41:52.671 --> 00:41:57.240
Well, is any part of New Jersey really in America? If you're listening to this show in New Jersey...00:41:58.246 --> 00:42:03.075
We do apologize for those comments just made by our host here.00:42:03.580 --> 00:42:07.506
Well, it's obviously got a New Jersey cowboy on the front of it. Right.00:42:07.506 --> 00:42:09.726
How many wild bills do you know00:42:12.106 --> 00:42:13.592
in New Jersey?00:42:13.778 --> 00:42:16.965
And four of them live in Millington. So I guess that's where it comes from.00:42:17.122 --> 00:42:19.676
Yeah. Man, that is a green soda.00:42:19.676 --> 00:42:21.546
I wish we had a glass to pour this into.00:42:21.966 --> 00:42:23.386
It is really bright.00:42:23.386 --> 00:42:24.696
Yeah. It says...00:42:24.786 --> 00:42:27.443
It's brighter than our background here, if you're watching the video.00:42:27.704 --> 00:42:34.896
Yeah. It has yellow number four and blue number one in it and sodium benzoate,00:42:34.896 --> 00:42:36.956
which probably is not good for you.00:42:36.966 --> 00:42:38.716
That's a preservative though, I think, right?00:42:38.716 --> 00:42:39.456
Yeah, it is.00:42:39.456 --> 00:42:43.136
So that our insides are being preserved. It does have sort of the same color00:42:43.136 --> 00:42:45.677
of green as, you know, like coolant.00:42:46.546 --> 00:42:50.222
It looks a lot. That's it. It looks a lot like antifreeze. Yeah.00:42:50.402 --> 00:42:54.326
Yeah. Like you're looking at car antifreeze, like we're drinking antifreeze.00:42:54.326 --> 00:42:57.676
Yeah. Are we sure that we are not drinking antifreeze?00:42:57.676 --> 00:43:01.855
Well, you know, dogs really like antifreeze. It's a deadly poison to them.00:43:01.983 --> 00:43:05.856
Right, exactly. So maybe this is a trick. Maybe this is AI's way of getting00:43:05.856 --> 00:43:12.431
us, is we're going to make this Ring Pop crazy flavor, and this is going to take us out.00:43:12.715 --> 00:43:18.686
I would not give this to my friends. I wouldn't wish it on my enemies either.00:43:18.986 --> 00:43:24.996
I'm going to have to go with on our Spurgeon scale. For me, this is going to be a pretty solid 1.00:43:26.346 --> 00:43:31.181
Maybe a 0.5. Oh. I'm just not, yeah, I wouldn't.00:43:31.337 --> 00:43:35.296
I mean, we've had some good sodas on here, right? Like some really drinkable00:43:35.296 --> 00:43:41.380
things, some refreshing things that just like you go, man, that's refreshing, it's enjoyable.00:43:41.717 --> 00:43:46.592
Yeah. So there was the 1054 East West schism and then, you know,00:43:46.592 --> 00:43:48.622
reformation that kind of split the church.00:43:49.102 --> 00:43:54.372
Is this, you and I agree on a lot of things. Is this going to be our separation here?00:43:54.372 --> 00:43:56.182
Are you going to give this like a five spurge?00:43:56.522 --> 00:44:01.312
Five is strong. I would say, how about three and three quarters?00:44:01.312 --> 00:44:03.322
No way. I would drink this, man. This is good.00:44:03.342 --> 00:44:07.222
Would you drink this? Would you pass this out at a party at your house?00:44:07.222 --> 00:44:08.222
I think I would.00:44:08.222 --> 00:44:08.796
Okay.00:44:08.935 --> 00:44:13.492
Maybe even a four. I think my kids would like this. I almost want to take it.00:44:13.492 --> 00:44:15.762
I'm an hour away from home, so it would be kind of flat.00:44:16.242 --> 00:44:21.172
And JC's done some of our soda tastes. He has, yeah. Yeah. So you might want00:44:21.172 --> 00:44:23.291
to give him some of this to try.00:44:23.563 --> 00:44:24.222
Yeah.00:44:24.582 --> 00:44:27.842
But I want to believe that JC has a more refined palate than this.00:44:28.662 --> 00:44:31.542
Maybe we'll find it. This is one we'll have to have a follow-up.00:44:31.542 --> 00:44:35.702
We're going to have to bring in some more opinions to settle this.00:44:35.846 --> 00:44:36.902
This great debate.00:44:36.902 --> 00:44:38.062
Yeah, this quick debate.00:44:38.062 --> 00:44:38.822
All right, let's do it.00:44:39.062 --> 00:44:42.882
Okay, we'll convene the church and have a church council on this.00:44:42.882 --> 00:44:46.702
Let's do it. Like the Acts council. Like the Nicene council,00:44:46.702 --> 00:44:50.447
council of Constantinople. This will be the fourth, the Wild Bill council.00:44:50.730 --> 00:44:53.865
This will be the fourth major council of the church.00:44:54.288 --> 00:44:57.709
So stay tuned for our announcement when that council is going to come up,00:44:57.709 --> 00:45:01.411
and your church can vote to send representatives to it.00:45:01.568 --> 00:45:02.015
That's right.00:45:02.293 --> 00:45:03.394
Let's do it. Cheers.00:45:03.499 --> 00:45:07.109
Well, hey, you may not be able to find this soda, but we would love to hear00:45:07.109 --> 00:45:12.029
your opinion on Wild Bill's Craft Watermelon Ring Pop Soda.00:45:12.349 --> 00:45:18.759
Is Chris crazy or am I? Well, let's close out with some deep prayer talk. I want to share with you00:45:18.759 --> 00:45:20.044
A couple of.00:45:20.201 --> 00:45:25.163
Prayer stories, one from a ministry hero of mine, George Mueller,00:45:25.442 --> 00:45:31.249
and one about the businessman's prayer revival that happened in the late 1800s.00:45:31.249 --> 00:45:36.919
So George Mueller was a guy who was German-born and lived in Bristol,00:45:36.919 --> 00:45:40.349
England, and he wanted his orphan ministry00:45:40.729 --> 00:45:47.089
to say something very specific to the world, that trusting God was not a merely00:45:47.489 --> 00:45:49.129
empty religious talk.00:45:49.129 --> 00:45:57.729
And he lived that out by not taking up offerings for a mission that would ultimately00:45:57.729 --> 00:46:01.089
look after like 10,000 orphans.00:46:01.205 --> 00:46:07.809
But even though he didn't take up offerings specifically, like he never mentioned needs.00:46:07.809 --> 00:46:12.599
They never did like a special crusade or whatever for the orphans where George00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:16.059
Miller would preach and then they would take up a special offering or anything like that.00:46:16.059 --> 00:46:21.064
But he didn't want the children neglected. He made the deliberate decision to00:46:21.191 --> 00:46:27.559
pray to God instead of solicit money personally for the needs of the orphan houses.00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:33.709
And some days that particular strategy made things very interesting.00:46:33.709 --> 00:46:38.653
And we know a lot about George Mueller and the day-to-day operations of the Orphan Center and00:46:38.991 --> 00:46:43.175
And his prayer life because he was a meticulous journal keeper.00:46:43.175 --> 00:46:48.046
In one February journal entry, Mueller wrote that there was no money in hand.00:46:48.203 --> 00:46:54.285
We were waiting upon God. The orphan homes needed bread. More than 100 people00:46:54.285 --> 00:46:58.985
depended on it at the time. It was smaller than it ended up being.00:46:58.985 --> 00:47:03.080
And they had zero money. Well, I say zero.00:47:03.330 --> 00:47:09.505
There was two shillings and nine pence that they had in their account to buy food for everybody.00:47:09.505 --> 00:47:15.305
And by late afternoon, Mueller went to the girls' orphan house to pray with the people.00:47:15.305 --> 00:47:19.445
And it turns out a box had arrived from a place called Barnstaple.00:47:19.445 --> 00:47:24.375
And it contained money, shoes, socks, fabric, books to sell, and jewelry.00:47:24.375 --> 00:47:28.675
But the most immediate story had already unfolded inside the homes.00:47:28.675 --> 00:47:32.025
They had been waiting for dinner, waiting to eat.00:47:32.025 --> 00:47:38.275
And a woman came in and bought one of Mueller's books and gave three extra shillings,00:47:38.275 --> 00:47:40.035
which was not a lot of money.00:47:40.035 --> 00:47:44.805
But five minutes later, the baker came by the boy's orphan house and the woman00:47:44.805 --> 00:47:48.715
who had sold the book used that extra money to buy extra bread.00:47:48.715 --> 00:47:53.525
And by the close of the day, the gifts that were in that donated box,00:47:53.525 --> 00:48:00.975
including the jewelry, allowed Mueller to give the matrons of all the houses a fuller supply of food.00:48:00.975 --> 00:48:09.312
The answer to the prayer for provision did not come in one big theatrical kind of movie moment.00:48:09.620 --> 00:48:16.225
It came in lots of small gifts, ordinary people, the surprise arrival of a box00:48:16.225 --> 00:48:19.535
from another town with things in it that could provide food.00:48:19.818 --> 00:48:23.920
A book purchase, and several other things. And if you know the story of George00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:28.580
Mueller a little bit, you know that there was many times in the life of him00:48:28.580 --> 00:48:31.463
and the orphans that they took care of where00:48:31.759 --> 00:48:35.236
they would begin the day praying and not have any food,00:48:35.538 --> 00:48:38.740
and God would provide and take care of them.00:48:38.740 --> 00:48:45.750
Psalm 37, 25 says, I have not seen the righteous forsaken. And George Mueller's00:48:45.750 --> 00:48:48.019
life is an excellent example of that.00:48:48.211 --> 00:48:51.690
And if you want to be encouraged in your prayer life, let me point you to the00:48:51.690 --> 00:48:57.580
journals of George Mueller, which you can find on Amazon or Logos and various places like that.00:48:57.940 --> 00:49:02.800
Fantastic reads to learn about becoming a man of prayer.00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:07.500
Well, speaking of man in prayer, similar time frame, but in the United States00:49:07.500 --> 00:49:09.460
of America in lower Manhattan in00:49:10.040 --> 00:49:18.560
1857, a man named Jeremiah Lanphier felt led to begin a prayer service in the00:49:18.560 --> 00:49:23.200
North Dutch Reformed Church on Fulton Street in Lower Manhattan.00:49:23.200 --> 00:49:27.780
This was on the third floor of that church. Lanphier was not a famous preacher.00:49:27.780 --> 00:49:35.340
It was a small church. He was a former businessman who was sort of a lay missionary in that church.00:49:36.088 --> 00:49:40.651
The church had kind of fallen off because the neighborhood was changing around it.00:49:40.929 --> 00:49:46.795
The people who worked downtown often lived elsewhere, and the church was shrinking and shrinking.00:49:46.795 --> 00:49:51.025
And Lanphier had been visiting the people around the church and inviting them00:49:51.025 --> 00:49:53.985
to come to church, but very few of them did.00:49:53.985 --> 00:50:00.735
So he tried something pretty radically different. He tried launching a noonday00:50:00.735 --> 00:50:03.375
prayer meeting for business people00:50:03.375 --> 00:50:08.716
who worked. And he posted a notice that invited people to come pray.00:50:09.013 --> 00:50:13.155
It basically said prayer meeting from 12 to 1 o'clock.00:50:13.155 --> 00:50:18.125
Stop by for 5 or 10 or 20 minutes or the whole time as your time admits.00:50:18.125 --> 00:50:22.865
The plan was prayer and a few hymns, no preaching. I don't even think they did00:50:22.865 --> 00:50:26.845
prayer requests or anything like that. And at noon, Lanfear was alone.00:50:26.845 --> 00:50:30.625
Like 10 minutes passed, then 20, then 30 minutes.00:50:30.799 --> 00:50:36.215
Nobody came for 30 minutes. that must have been discouraging, but he waited.00:50:36.215 --> 00:50:42.375
He kept praying. Finally, he heard footsteps come up the stairs, and one man arrived.00:50:42.375 --> 00:50:46.885
By the end of the hour, six people had come and prayed together.00:50:46.885 --> 00:50:51.015
The next Wednesday, he tried again. Twenty people came. Then after that,00:50:51.015 --> 00:50:55.765
there was more than 30. Soon, that little prayer meeting became daily.00:50:56.105 --> 00:50:59.225
Then they went through an economic crash.00:50:59.225 --> 00:51:05.675
In 1857, the panic hit. Banks failed, businesses collapsed, and all of New York00:51:05.675 --> 00:51:10.625
City was basically just terrified. This was like one of the early Wall Street00:51:10.625 --> 00:51:13.557
kind of crashes, and that did not00:51:13.731 --> 00:51:16.145
Hurt the prayer. It helped the prayer.00:51:16.145 --> 00:51:20.995
These little prayer gatherings grew from a few dozen people to hundreds,00:51:20.995 --> 00:51:25.665
and multiple rooms were needed, and soon other churches and places opened their00:51:25.665 --> 00:51:26.937
doors for similar things.00:51:27.251 --> 00:51:30.196
Daytime meetings. And by the spring of that year,00:51:30.556 --> 00:51:36.226
just like a little over a month or two later, there was 10,000 people at least00:51:36.226 --> 00:51:43.176
gathering for prayer every day across at least 20 New York churches and YMCAs.00:51:43.176 --> 00:51:48.340
And that pattern spread beyond the city through the United States, even into Canada.00:51:48.671 --> 00:51:54.346
And they called it the businessman's prayer revival. Contemporary reports described00:51:54.346 --> 00:51:58.835
crowded meetings, people coming to Jesus, and people just prayed.00:51:59.247 --> 00:52:05.006
Acts 4 31 says when they had prayed, the place was shaken, and Fulton Street00:52:05.006 --> 00:52:10.196
didn't begin with an earthquake that we know of. It began with one guy who was00:52:10.196 --> 00:52:13.243
sitting by himself and didn't give up even though00:52:13.569 --> 00:52:18.953
Nobody came for the first 30 minutes. Eventually people came and those few people00:52:18.953 --> 00:52:24.593
praying God used to not only rock the city of New York, but to rock the entire00:52:24.593 --> 00:52:28.493
country of the United States and Canada and beyond that as well.00:52:28.493 --> 00:52:32.893
Let me close out with an update on Great Commission Association news.00:52:32.893 --> 00:52:36.573
There is a great article I've linked on our website in the show notes to this00:52:36.573 --> 00:52:41.967
episode at everychurchflourishing.com, everychurchflourishing.com.00:52:42.205 --> 00:52:47.813
It's called Loving the Lost by Dr. Chris Smith, whom we had on the show a few episodes ago.00:52:48.173 --> 00:52:52.303
You can get that either on our website, everychurchflourishing.com,00:52:52.303 --> 00:52:56.123
or the GCASBC.org website.00:52:56.274 --> 00:53:01.475
And I want to spotlight a church plant that's part of our Great Commission Association of Family.00:53:01.610 --> 00:53:06.973
It's the Afghan-American Church, pastored by an Afghan-American named Mike Z.00:53:07.501 --> 00:53:13.473
It's a church plant through the GCA. Its mission is to reach the Afghan immigrants00:53:13.473 --> 00:53:18.933
that live around the Fremont area, which is one of the largest groups of Afghanistan00:53:18.933 --> 00:53:21.603
people in the entire United States of America.00:53:21.603 --> 00:53:26.043
That church wants to continue to grow into a strong community of worshipers00:53:26.043 --> 00:53:30.053
and proclaimers of the one true God through Jesus Christ our Lord.00:53:30.053 --> 00:53:34.683
So please pray for the Afghan American church in Fremont, for God's work in00:53:34.683 --> 00:53:39.840
the hearts and minds of that community through their regular outreach programs, which include a00:53:40.055 --> 00:53:45.563
kid's soccer camp and other things like that, and a backpack giveaway coming up.00:53:45.563 --> 00:53:50.915
Pray for God to break through the spirit of fear in the Afghan community so that00:53:51.211 --> 00:53:55.443
the church can be fruitful, the gospel can be heard, and those many,00:53:55.443 --> 00:54:00.603
many Afghanis that live in the Fremont area can hear the gospel and have the00:54:00.603 --> 00:54:04.452
freedom to seek the truth and for the truth to set them free.00:54:04.655 --> 00:54:12.533
All right, well, thanks for listening today. Back next week with Gateway Bay Area Seminary Head, Dr.00:54:12.533 --> 00:54:16.689
Cameron Schweitzer. We had a fantastic conversation with him,00:54:17.003 --> 00:54:21.662
And we will see you next week. Good day to you, and Godspeed.
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