WEBVTT
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How can we have a distraction-free prayer life? Today's guest,
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Dr. C.J. Wan, suggests we ask.
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Is this a possible distraction that Satan is throwing at me so that I will be
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preoccupied or spent rather than being with the Lord?
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Leaders, and pastors find health, encouragement, practical advice,
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soul care, and resources that work together to build up your local fellowship
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and the broader kingdom of God.
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Join hosts, Pastor Chris Cole and Dr. Chase Thompson from the Great Commission
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Association, led by Dr. Mike Stewart, as they explore the frontiers of ministry
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and aim for the goal of making every church flourish.
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Hello, everybody, and welcome in to episode number 23 of the Every Church Flourishing podcast.
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We are sponsored by the Great Commission Association of Central California,
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and today we have a deep discussion with the GCA's own Dr. C.J.
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Juan on the topic of prayer. Dr. Juan goes beyond the normal prayer discussions
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and will lead us into a wonderful blend of spirituality
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and practicality as we discuss how to enrich your prayer life and why the tyranny
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of the urgent is less worth your time than abiding in Christ is. C.J.
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Shared one of my favorite quotes I've heard recently when he said that we often
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settle for what we can do, what we can muster up rather than what God can do.
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Sometimes we miss out on the fruitfulness of what God can do because we are doing it our way.
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Now, I can totally relate to that, and I bet you can too.
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And I think Dr. C.J. is going to help us today to prioritize prayer and abiding
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over, under, and in addition to all of the day-to-day tasks of ministry and life that all of us face.
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It's a powerful and practical episode, and Dr.
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C.J. will close out that interview with a great time of prayer,
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but don't leave yet because Pastor Christopher and I will almost ruin it with
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a review of Lester's Fixin's Bacon Soda.
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Not baking soda, that probably would have tasted better, but bacon soda.
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This is a soda that should have been prayed over far more before it was released.
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You will hear a former law enforcement officer testify under oath.
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This has some odor peculiarities that are similar to methamphetamines,
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and the world's foremost cereal expert will suggest that this soda smells like
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it'll take 10 years off of our life and I feel like I'm drinking a pig and it's weird.
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But before we have that rough experience, let's talk prayer and go deep.
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And we will welcome in Dr. C.J. Wan with the Great Commission Association.
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Dr. C.J., please introduce yourself. Tell us about yourself,
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your work and position with the GCA, and maybe a little bit of your history
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prior to joining the GCA.
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I'm glad to be here. I serve as the Associate Director of Mission and the Director
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of Operations, overseeing finances, compliance, and many other operations stuff.
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Prior to GCA, I was a church planter and worked also for an overseas mission
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organization. So I kind of been around the world doing different mission alliances,
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mission networks with mission agencies, and then things like that.
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Fantastic. Where all have you lived?
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I have lived in Korea before I got to US and then here in San Jose Bay Area
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basically is where we landed and Texas when I was in school.
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But California has been my home for 45 years. Okay. 46 years.
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So you were only in Korea for a few years. Yeah. Nice. All right.
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So how did you find yourself in ministry when you were growing up?
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Is that something you aspire to? Did you kind of accidentally back into it?
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Did you have a clear and obvious calling or was it sort of more subtle and gradual?
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I was born into and grew up in a Christian family. Mom prayed for a son for
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particular, like a Hannah prayer.
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I'll give you my son if you give me this son.
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I was a second boy to the family. And so that was what I heard.
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But soon after I immigrated to the U.S. when I was in 1980, I felt the calling of the Lord.
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Now, what that means to a nine-year-old means different.
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But I felt that serving Him was the thing that I would like to do with my life.
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So no other career or occupational choices seemed to measure up.
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I felt like serving God would be the greatest thing I can do.
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Ever since then, that's sort of been my goal, high school, college, seminary.
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And here I am after, I don't know how many years, since seminary in 1997,
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I continue to serve the Lord this way.
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So you were eight or nine when you kind of first began to discern the call to ministry.
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I know for me, growing up, there was only one period in my life where I kind of considered that.
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I was eight or nine myself. And a buddy of mine, when we went to a Presbyterian
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Christian school and we got it into our mind after a missionary came and visited
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our classes that we wanted to be missionaries.
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So we went around door to door telling people about hell and warning them about
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hell and telling them about Jesus. And kind of we were many missionaries there
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for a while. But for me, as I got into high school and
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even really college. I worked in a church as a youth minister.
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I worked as a camp counselor at a Christian camp, but a lifetime in ministry
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is a bit of a surprise for me.
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I did have a clear and obvious calling point when I had graduated from college,
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but it kind of came as something of a shock to me.
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So I understand that you recently were on a pastor's prayer retreat.
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Been on a couple of those myself, but they're all different.
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So kind of tell us the story of how you got to be on that retreat.
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Tell us a little bit about it. Give us some background.
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This February, Dr. Stuart Christopher Cole and I went to this pastor's retreat
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in Forney, Texas. Never been to Forney, Texas.
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But this retreat was a bit different because it was, maybe I was different.
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I took away different things.
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It wasn't just another conference or another seminar on what to do,
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but it gave me insight into how the prayer topic might have been misunderstood as an end in itself.
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And the prayer was one of a few ways for us to draw near to the presence of
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God. And often we left prayer to be prayer, things we do because we need God.
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But this allowed for us to think about what is the end goal of prayer? Why is it that we pray?
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It's not so much because I want to tell God everything I need,
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but really to commune with Him, to be with Him. And I think that was powerful.
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And for us to spend time with Him, if it did, just the amount of different things
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that could happen just by God being in our presence and change us inside out.
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And so those are the highlights.
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There's many things I'm sure I'll talk about in different questions,
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but that's, it was a great retreat.
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I think they used the word right. It was a retreat, not a conference.
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Who put on the conference? Who led it?
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Nathan Lino is the pastor of Forney, and him and one other pastor from the area
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actually puts this on twice a year.
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And this is one way for them to encourage, hey, we found something.
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It's not, you know, crazy, but it's actually helping us to stay in the presence
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of God. And so that's sort of what's inspired us, and we wanted to follow up.
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Yeah, that's great. So, like I said, I've been to several of these kind of prayer conferences before.
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I think every pastor, every mature, seasoned Christian leader knows that prayer is important.
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Just like pretty much every person in the West knows that good nutrition and exercise is important.
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But maybe most of us don't have a lifestyle of that.
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So how did the leaders of this conference, how did the conference,
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because I've heard feedback from some of the guys that went.
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I've heard that it was very special.
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How did they communicate the
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call to the importance of prayer in a way that was sticky, in a way that
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kind of went beyond just a few days of transformation into a longer tail than that, a longer impact?
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I think they've approached it really from at the end of what we want to get
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done through prayer. And prayer is one of many ways for us to approach the presence of God.
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And getting to the presence of God was their goal. And prayer happened to be
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one of those mechanisms rather than a prayer is a program or it's a template
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that we need to use. And so that was special.
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And they allowed us to experience that firsthand, not just through prayer.
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Seminars and topics and teaching on it. But we spent, I think,
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a good half a day just being alone with God and asking those questions and thinking
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through processes and what does it mean to consecrate ourselves?
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All of those were words we know of, but really something that we don't really practice.
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And that was special because we got to, I got to at least spend that afternoon
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just alone with God and what that meant and how that felt. And so you walked
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away, not just having prayed a lot of prayer, but you walked away having spent time with God.
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And so that was a difference maker, at least for this retreat.
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Yeah, you and I are both Baptists. And I think the Baptist way is generally
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to try to teach people into transformation.
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And I appreciate that. I mean, we've both been to seminary, worked in seminaries.
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I think teaching is really primary, but I like the fact that it sounds like
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this retreat was more about practicing the presence of God,
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to borrow Brother Lawrenceism rather than just kind of 90% teaching.
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We had a marriage retreat earlier this year with the Great Commission Association.
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And one of the things I really appreciated about that GCA marriage retreat is
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that there was intentional time built in to
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work on our marriage rather Rather than it being wall-to-wall teaching. Again, I'm a teacher.
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When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you're a teacher,
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everything looks like a lesson that needs to be taught.
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When you do that, you don't actually sometimes have the experiential reality
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of working on your marriage or, in your case, working on your prayer life and your ministry.
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I mean, your intimacy with God, and it sounds to me like it really harkens back to the old days,
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the Brother Lawrence, even before that, the Desert Fathers, the early church,
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who really did practice abiding, I think, at a much higher level than we do.
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So along those lines, what's, you know, the previous emphasis of the church
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on prayer versus the busyness of life today, what stops prayer from happening in the church?
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From the retreat and different meditations and things that happen afterwards,
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we come to, at least I come to realize that there's many things that's preventing
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us from being with the Lord, not just in prayer, but just being with the Lord.
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And the word they used was distractions.
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And I think that spells it right because, you know, it could be anywhere from
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fear of unknown, that's a distraction or ignorance. I just don't know what is going to happen.
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And sometimes we don't believe the words we actually study.
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And so we don't really think that, hey, I'm going to call on God and I'm going
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to expect God to do different things because I'm with him.
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And often we choose not to pray or to enter the presence of God because we're
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just, it's just inconvenient for me right now. I have too much going on.
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And you could use the word busyness of life.
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And many do that. And also there's a problem, I think, called religious insistence.
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We try to be a good follower. And we do a lot of things that we believe will be helpful.
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And so those are many things that I think hinders us. But under that word distraction,
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these are my thoughts, not theirs.
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And so I don't want to misquote anybody that has taught and let that retreat.
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But the word busyness and distraction, I think we could include things like this.
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Strategies, plans, preparations, convictions, passion, you know,
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and we do audits and accountability and we do numbers and we do events, budget.
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I mean, you think about so many ways we do church or ministry life,
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and a lot of it is really us trying to make this work. I'm not saying it's bad.
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None of these are bad, but I think we have bought into the idea that we do the
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99% preparation, and ask God to bless a spiritual blessing over our plan rather
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than spending a lot of time with the Lord who has greater plan than us.
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And so for me, that was the wake-up call.
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I am a processor, so I like solving problems, but maybe that's the problem.
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And that I am trying to solve the problem when God is saying,
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no, I want you to be with me.
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So that's a distraction. Many things that I just listed are many,
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many distractions that are pulling people away from being with the Father.
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Well, I want to get into some of those distractions and some...
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Ways we can overcome them. But I think you put your finger there on the thing
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that might be the primary issue. And, you know, it's the old adage,
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if it's to be, it's up to me.
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I think church leaders in particular, pastors, their experience gets them to
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the place where they wouldn't vocalize that, but they'll say that.
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And so therefore, the church with the leader thinking that, thinking that human
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effort is the fuel that will get us to fruitfulness and success,
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they fall into that trap.
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I think that's one of the biggest, maybe the primary obstacle is self-dependence.
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So a pastor is listening to this and he kind of feels that burden of,
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I got to make things happen, man.
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I'm too busy to pray and I know I should pray, but if I just sit around and
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pray, none of this stuff is going to happen. So Dr. CJ, what do you say to them?
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How do you get them to overcome that first and foremost obstacle?
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I think it's got to be where we just surrender.
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And that is a word I've been chewing on, doing teachings on and books I read
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and other things. But for us to really surrender and say, God, this is your ministry.
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I'm called to do your work and I need to be with you so that I could understand
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and hear the voice and messages that you want me to have. Now,
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that doesn't have to be, you know, 60 hours a week, but it has to be a priority.
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It has to be something that we do and set aside intentionally.
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Otherwise, schedules, calendars will get filled up and other things will crowd
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our time and we will get distracted.
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And I didn't mention this, but, you know, problems and troubles are distractions.
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Tragedies are distractions.
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They're bad in itself. But when, you know, the urgent matters happen and success
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and failures and all of these things that comes with our ministry
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tends to pull us away from the presence of God rather than draw us closer to
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the presence of God. And I think
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For us, first is admit, Lord, I need you. I can't do this without you.
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Rather than saying, Lord, let me try 10 more times on my own.
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And then if all of that fails, which will fail, then I'll come back to you.
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And so I think it starts there for us to say, Lord, this is yours. I'm yours.
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And I can't do anything better than to spend time with you and make that a priority.
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And if we are with the Lord, hearing his message, being filled by him and cooperating
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with the Holy Spirit that's in us, then you know what? He could do everything better than us.
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And 10 times, 100 times more, if we are actually an effective tool in his hand. Yeah.
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Amen. So I was raised by a dad who was a great dad, but that taught me to value
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effort, try hard as the key to success.
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And he's a very successful man. And that has spilled over into my ministry.
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That's my wiring. And for me, it helps to, not that that's wrong.
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I mean, I think effort is still incredibly important.
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It's just not our fuel source.
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And to me, it helps to meditate on verses like Jeremiah 17, 5,
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where it says, cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength,
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whose heart turns away from the Lord.
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I mean, my natural tendency is to do that. And I have, I've preached about this
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verse so many times you'd think I would have mastered it and lived it and walked in it.
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But one of the reasons why I preach about second Corinthians 12 is it's just
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so contrary to my nature where Paul talks about how God's power is made perfect in weakness.
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And when I am weak, then I am strong. And I think that's, that's a huge key
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to abiding. It's lowering your trust in yourself and
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raising your fundamental trust in God and what he can do.
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One of the first podcasts we had with you, I think it was episode six,
00:17:51.267 --> 00:17:55.317
you said something that has really stuck with me in your role as the director
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of operations for the GCA.
00:17:58.347 --> 00:18:01.627
You were talking about how you had all this administrative scheduling,
00:18:02.027 --> 00:18:06.998
complicated things to do, and you tried to approach it from a point of prayer.
00:18:07.323 --> 00:18:13.760
And, you know, most beaver processor type personalities would say,
00:18:13.760 --> 00:18:15.288
well, how do you even do that?
00:18:15.561 --> 00:18:17.854
So I'll kind of throw that question on you.
00:18:18.132 --> 00:18:24.910
How do you process, how do you approach mundane things of ministry prayerfully?
00:18:25.810 --> 00:18:30.091
The way I do it is probably not the best way to do it, or this is just one way.
00:18:30.224 --> 00:18:33.545
But I obviously start the day, hopefully with a clean slate,
00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:36.570
having settled any accounts with God before I go to sleep.
00:18:37.170 --> 00:18:40.950
But start the day listening to the scripture, come into the office and pray
00:18:40.950 --> 00:18:45.500
and have that devotional time when I'm just listening to God and asking him,
00:18:45.500 --> 00:18:48.874
Lord, I got a bunch of stuff that's got to get done today. Help me through this.
00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:51.533
Give me wisdom and discernment. And I can't do this.
00:18:52.398 --> 00:18:57.110
I want it to be done that honors you. And so that's really how I start the day.
00:18:57.110 --> 00:19:02.280
And then throughout the day, it's just processing, asking, thinking and talking to other people.
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And so it's not so much of how do I stop for everything.
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It's just I start the day and I end the day and I want to be in the Lord.
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And so that's kind of a regular day to day. But on a week to week,
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I also have a different, I guess, a cycle where I try to carve out at least
00:19:18.210 --> 00:19:21.580
two days a week when I'm just skipping a couple of meals and just saying,
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Lord, I don't have everything done here.
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I don't have clarity. However, I want to give you space and time for you to say what you want to say.
00:19:28.310 --> 00:19:32.320
And I want to be sensitive. And that word is still new to me because I,
00:19:32.320 --> 00:19:35.703
again, as being Baptist and being trained in theological training,
00:19:35.854 --> 00:19:40.259
sometimes we get weary about spiritual sensitivity and, you know, things like that.
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But I want to be able to hear the nudging of the Holy Spirit.
00:19:43.870 --> 00:19:47.718
I want to be able to respond according to what He's asking me to do.
00:19:47.852 --> 00:19:52.630
But I can only do that if I'm actually giving in time and space where I'm not
00:19:52.630 --> 00:19:56.670
babbling, where I'm not, you know, doing all the talking.
00:19:57.210 --> 00:20:02.573
At least a couple of days a week, I'm skipping lunch or whatever else and just saying, Lord, I'm here.
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You have reins. If you want to say anything to me, talk to me,
00:20:05.686 --> 00:20:09.912
remind me of a book or a Bible verse or whatever it is, I'm here.
00:20:10.063 --> 00:20:13.389
So I'm scratching the surface, I think, as I do that.
00:20:13.493 --> 00:20:17.991
But I could tell you this, that for all the years that I have served in full
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time, I feel like I'm at a different place now where I feel like I'm more attuned
00:20:22.851 --> 00:20:26.241
to and willing to listen to the Holy Spirit.
00:20:26.701 --> 00:20:30.663
And so it's scary for me, but that's sort of how I go about it. Okay.
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Praise God for that. So back into distractions, doubt, fear,
00:20:36.803 --> 00:20:43.147
yourself, and just practical distractions like your phone or the tyranny of the urgent.
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What would you say are two or three of the worst of those distractions?
00:20:48.631 --> 00:20:54.316
And can you give us some practical advice for church leaders and pastors to,
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ignore, overcome, step aside from the distractions to prioritize prayer?
00:21:00.812 --> 00:21:04.461
Yeah, I think obviously it's who controls your calendar is one,
00:21:04.461 --> 00:21:05.721
how much you put in there.
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You have to be willing to carve out time and that you do have control over.
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And, you know, sometimes, you know, for anybody listening out there,
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you know, for you to spend X number of hours preparing and studying is one thing.
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Do you have separate time that's carved out in your calendar to say,
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I'm just going to listen and be with the Lord?
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So I think that's got to be something that we intentionally have to practice.
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And that is to carve out time in our calendar, put it as a block time that we're
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just going to spend with the Lord. Not sermon perping, not doing my devotional,
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but just being with the Lord.
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I think that's one. The other is, you know, trying to solve problems on our
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own, which as we talked about, we are gifted, I think, in that area.
00:21:46.581 --> 00:21:51.321
Yeah, we like solving problems and we want to go head first and try to resolve
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issues. But every time that comes up, perhaps we should think about it as,
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is this a possible distraction?
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Is this a possible distraction that Satan is throwing at me so that I will be
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preoccupied or spent rather than being with the Lord?
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And so that's secondary. I think we have to consider everything that we're doing
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and facing and kind of measure it. Is this a distraction or is this something
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that's going to be advancing the kingdom of God?
00:22:16.305 --> 00:22:20.101
That's, I think, very important. And I would say, lastly, we're talking about
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the busyness of life. Things are going to happen, but you know what?
00:22:23.776 --> 00:22:27.761
We don't have control over those things anyway. And for us to come to a place
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where we just surrender and say,
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God, I can't control, I have no control over what this is going to be.
00:22:32.241 --> 00:22:36.851
And just literally surrendering that part to Him. Those are,
00:22:36.851 --> 00:22:39.981
it may be practical, it may not be practical for some, but calendar you could
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control and put a marker in your mind to say, hey, is this a distraction for me?
00:22:46.261 --> 00:22:50.201
To be with the Lord. Those we could easily do. And we should really,
00:22:50.201 --> 00:22:53.081
really look at the things that are distracting us. It could be phones.
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It could be movies. It could be good things, even exercise.
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Are they distracting me from being with the Lord?
00:22:59.743 --> 00:23:03.848
Yeah. Well, you mentioned one of those that I think is one of the biggest distractions
00:23:03.848 --> 00:23:07.214
we have now. We went through the COVID pandemic.
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I think there's probably a greater pandemic in our lifetime that is technological in nature.
00:23:17.048 --> 00:23:22.588
I think if we went back 30 years and said, hey, one day there's going to be
00:23:22.588 --> 00:23:28.025
something we carry around in our pocket that we look at six hours a day.
00:23:28.165 --> 00:23:32.678
Pretty much everybody looks at six hours a day. That's in addition to TV and
00:23:32.678 --> 00:23:34.230
whatever else hobbies we have.
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I think most of us would be shocked and we would have a hard time imagining, well, what possibly...
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Would capture people's attention for almost a third of the hours that they're awake.
00:23:46.336 --> 00:23:51.776
And I remember 12, 13 years ago, I went with two other pastors,
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church leaders, on a trip to a camp with our daughters. And we all were struggling
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with phone addiction at that time.
00:24:00.201 --> 00:24:04.506
And I was obnoxious about it. And I took a bunch of pictures of them on their
00:24:04.506 --> 00:24:09.396
phone and put together a collage. Not that I was any better.
00:24:09.396 --> 00:24:15.036
I might have been the worst of all of us, but that was close to 15 years ago.
00:24:15.616 --> 00:24:23.736
It was a long time ago. And I think bone addiction among everybody has just gotten worse and worse.
00:24:23.736 --> 00:24:30.196
I still remember in 2004, I went to Kenya on a mission trip and went to the
00:24:30.196 --> 00:24:37.536
Maasai Mara, which is next to the Tanzanian Serengeti, and saw all of these Maasai Mara,
00:24:38.096 --> 00:24:42.326
herdsmen in their traditional outfits on their phones.
00:24:42.442 --> 00:24:47.656
And that was like 20 something years ago in Africa, in one of the greatest wildlife
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reservations in the world.
00:24:48.876 --> 00:24:51.696
And man, it owns us. So again,
00:24:52.216 --> 00:24:57.216
we're speaking to pastors and church leaders who are struggling with phone addiction,
00:24:57.216 --> 00:25:03.096
maybe if they don't even call it that, but how can they practically and spiritually,
00:25:03.876 --> 00:25:09.627
discipline themselves to maybe set aside their phone and focus on abiding more?
00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:13.656
Yeah. Again, you got to carve out time and that's something you can control,
00:25:13.656 --> 00:25:19.316
but you have to be trusting that God will be in control over all the fear of
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unknown, you know, fear of missing out issue.
00:25:21.933 --> 00:25:25.926
God is in control of it. And, you know, people that are worried about what if
00:25:25.926 --> 00:25:30.082
an urgent call, you know, something happens and somebody needs to get in touch with me.
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Well, you know, even if you got that phone call, you couldn't do much unless God is in charge of it.
00:25:36.142 --> 00:25:41.657
And anyway, so we have to be willing to say, this is something I'm going to let go for a few hours.
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Again, can we do that for three days? Probably not, unless you're committed.
00:25:45.177 --> 00:25:49.367
But on a weekly basis, you can carve out one evening to say,
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I'm just going to, this is a time with the Lord. And start there.
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And I think God can do great things when we draw near to Him.
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When we say, Lord, I want to spend this time just with you.
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Yeah. I think far too many of us trade away the fruitfulness that comes from
00:26:06.127 --> 00:26:11.587
abiding for the technological advantages we get from all of these things that
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are part of our lives now.
00:26:13.417 --> 00:26:17.537
So along those lines, let's kind of slide into talking about humble,
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desperate dependence on God versus what we usually settle for,
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which is much less than I think what he offers.
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:32.850
How do we settle for less than God's fruitful best when we live lives that just
00:26:33.013 --> 00:26:37.627
basically pray over a meal, pray at the beginning of a church service,
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but other than that, we're just living our lives?
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Yeah. Again, some lessons learned from the prayer retreat is I think we often
00:26:45.787 --> 00:26:49.907
settle for what we can do, things that we can muster up, things that we could
00:26:49.907 --> 00:26:53.007
try and make happen rather than what God can do.
00:26:53.007 --> 00:26:57.864
And I think that's a biggest separator that we have to be worried about as pastors and leaders.
00:26:58.177 --> 00:27:02.340
And we're pretty good. We could do a lot of things. We could create a lot of things.
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But sometimes we miss out on the fruitfulness of what God can do because we
00:27:07.317 --> 00:27:11.360
are trying to do it our way or we're trying to make it happen.
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.900
Rather than letting God do what he wants to do. And I think it goes back to
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the similar theme again, but if we are able, just imagine, if we're able to
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spend our time with the creator, think about those words.
00:27:23.230 --> 00:27:28.080
If we are just spending our time before the creator, omnipotent God who knows
00:27:28.080 --> 00:27:31.253
all things, who can do all things, nothing is impossible for him.
00:27:31.358 --> 00:27:33.703
He's the author of life, author of salvation.
00:27:33.964 --> 00:27:37.740
He's in control, he's sovereign. These are words that I'm not throwing that
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:42.840
you go, what, CJ, you know a lot of words. No, these are words that we all understand well.
00:27:42.957 --> 00:27:48.020
The problem is, if that is true, and if I could spend my time with the Lord,
00:27:48.020 --> 00:27:53.492
who is all that, and reaffirm that He is in perfect control, for me, I could
00:27:53.795 --> 00:27:57.100
live in peace knowing that, yes, there are things that I can't solve,
00:27:57.100 --> 00:27:59.118
but I trust in God because...
00:27:59.466 --> 00:28:02.392
As I spend my time with the Lord, he gives me a sense of peace.
00:28:02.717 --> 00:28:07.791
And again, an experiential thing, he gives me a sense of peace that I can't explain away.
00:28:07.912 --> 00:28:10.544
But that's, I think, the power of fruitfulness that we miss out.
00:28:10.864 --> 00:28:15.554
If we don't prioritize, I guess prayer is one, but spending time with the Lord,
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I think what we end up doing is we crowd ourselves with our attempts,
00:28:19.818 --> 00:28:22.186
what I think I can do, what I wish I can do.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.584
And then all the other things that come with it, all the worries and anxieties
00:28:26.584 --> 00:28:29.584
and discouragements and shame and guilt, you name it.
00:28:30.384 --> 00:28:34.814
I think our, you know, Satan himself and our adversary, they know how to press
00:28:34.814 --> 00:28:36.367
the buttons that'll frustrate us.
00:28:36.784 --> 00:28:41.814
And we do not get to a place where we're just really being in the presence of
00:28:41.814 --> 00:28:46.613
God, just adoring our Savior and sometimes just listening to the Holy Spirit.
00:28:46.758 --> 00:28:51.489
And so, yes, personally, I think we miss out because we don't have that experiential
00:28:51.739 --> 00:28:54.299
feeling from God and being with Him.
00:28:54.589 --> 00:28:59.274
The other is, we reap the other side, which is, well, you did what you did on
00:28:59.274 --> 00:29:01.904
your own. And so how's that going for you?
00:29:03.184 --> 00:29:07.264
And so that's the other thing. So he can do so much. He is able,
00:29:07.264 --> 00:29:10.914
more than able, to do everything on his own. And he could do so much better
00:29:10.914 --> 00:29:14.193
when we become a choice instrument in his hands.
00:29:14.332 --> 00:29:17.834
And that's, I think, where we would really experience different things.
00:29:17.834 --> 00:29:21.598
If we become the instrument of God because we are spending our time with him,
00:29:21.939 --> 00:29:26.512
listening to Him, abiding in Him, then I think God can do far beyond what we
00:29:26.512 --> 00:29:28.632
can imagine. And He promises that.
00:29:29.502 --> 00:29:34.060
I think that's what we're missing sometimes because we're busy trying, we're busy doing.
00:29:34.257 --> 00:29:39.762
Yeah. Trying and doing is often the opposite of abiding and waiting.
00:29:40.202 --> 00:29:43.342
And we're supposed to wait on the Lord far more, I think, than more.
00:29:43.382 --> 00:29:44.741
Far more. Yep. Yep. Yep.
00:29:44.996 --> 00:29:50.076
Let's talk about biblical pictures of prayer in the Bible.
00:29:50.227 --> 00:29:54.582
What is your one or two favorite prayer stories in the word?
00:29:55.002 --> 00:29:58.102
And how do those episodes inspire you?
00:29:58.682 --> 00:30:02.696
I could only tell you what's favorite in recent time because there's been many,
00:30:02.835 --> 00:30:04.484
but there's a couple that comes to mind.
00:30:04.699 --> 00:30:11.182
One of my recent favorite is from Mark chapter nine and where a father brings
00:30:11.582 --> 00:30:13.551
his son who's possessed by evil spirit.
00:30:13.696 --> 00:30:18.084
And he comes to Jesus saying, if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.
00:30:18.368 --> 00:30:22.422
And you know the answer, Jesus said, if you can, You know, everything is possible
00:30:22.422 --> 00:30:24.196
for him who believes. Amen.
00:30:24.347 --> 00:30:28.864
But I love verse 24 where the father actually says, I do believe,
00:30:28.991 --> 00:30:31.209
help me overcome my unbelief. Yeah.
00:30:31.354 --> 00:30:36.302
And I think that part, the last part of his confession, his prayer and how he's
00:30:36.302 --> 00:30:40.582
pleading with the Savior that's about to heal his son.
00:30:40.902 --> 00:30:45.282
I think that's for me a touch point where, yes, Lord, I do believe. It's honest prayer.
00:30:45.882 --> 00:30:52.467
It's such a raw prayer. Lord, I do believe in you. But I do have a part where I have unbelief issues.
00:30:52.623 --> 00:30:57.602
Help me overcome my unbelief. And so I think that's a confession from my end,
00:30:57.602 --> 00:30:59.247
but I think that's something that
00:30:59.573 --> 00:31:04.262
Many of us may have to revisit in an honest way with God. God,
00:31:04.262 --> 00:31:07.944
I do believe in you, but I know that there are areas in my life I don't believe in you.
00:31:08.077 --> 00:31:10.277
So help me overcome my unbelief.
00:31:10.428 --> 00:31:14.092
So that's, for me, that's been echoing in my head. And I've been saying that
00:31:14.092 --> 00:31:18.757
prayer, help me overcome, Lord. Second is from, you know, 2 Kings chapter 6,
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.160
you know, Elijah praying for his servant.
00:31:21.857 --> 00:31:26.600
They're surrounded by the king of Aram. And obviously the servant can't see.
00:31:26.826 --> 00:31:28.858
He sees the physical army.
00:31:29.090 --> 00:31:33.272
And so Elijah prays this prayer. And this is a theme here. Oh,
00:31:33.272 --> 00:31:35.472
Lord, open his eyes so he may see.
00:31:35.832 --> 00:31:39.912
Open his eyes so he may see. Then the Lord opened the servant's eyes and he
00:31:39.912 --> 00:31:41.572
looked and saw the hills full of what?
00:31:41.572 --> 00:31:47.532
Horses and chariots of fire all around him. I think that for me is a vivid picture
00:31:47.532 --> 00:31:52.492
of how often I am living my life. I only see what's the physical,
00:31:52.492 --> 00:31:54.446
what is here right now, what I could touch.
00:31:54.580 --> 00:31:58.452
But sometimes I just need a prayer like this. Lord, open his eyes,
00:31:58.452 --> 00:32:02.097
open my eyes so that I can see what you're doing.
00:32:02.207 --> 00:32:05.352
The chariots of fire, all the things that you're already working on.
00:32:05.672 --> 00:32:09.516
He's not stopped. He has not stopped working. The Holy Spirit is always at work.
00:32:09.667 --> 00:32:14.752
Then what's the issue? I might be blind or I might be unable right now to see
00:32:15.072 --> 00:32:18.612
what the Lord is doing. So yeah, asking to overcome unbelief.
00:32:18.612 --> 00:32:24.538
And then really this secondary prayer, which is Lord, help me see. help me see
00:32:24.856 --> 00:32:25.779
Those are a couple of things.
00:32:25.779 --> 00:32:30.619
I got a couple as well. And then I'll do something unusual that's not even in our script.
00:32:30.619 --> 00:32:35.529
I'm going to ask you to close us in prayer and pray for the leaders and pastors
00:32:35.529 --> 00:32:40.719
who are listening to this episode that the eyes of their heart will be opened to.
00:32:41.299 --> 00:32:45.869
Hear the call to prayer, not just in a temporary inspiration kind of way,
00:32:45.869 --> 00:32:47.499
but in a long run kind of way.
00:32:47.939 --> 00:32:52.738
So two stories for me, and I'm the same as you. These are sort of recent inspirations.
00:32:52.929 --> 00:32:57.929
In 1 Daniel chapter 2 in the Old Testament, King Nebuchadnezzar has had his
00:32:57.929 --> 00:33:04.859
dream and he wants it interpreted, but he also wants the interpreters to tell him the dream.
00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:08.929
And they're like, nobody can do that. And he's like, okay, I'm going to kill
00:33:08.929 --> 00:33:14.659
every one of you by ripping you limb from limb and I'm going to turn your houses into a garbage dump.
00:33:15.199 --> 00:33:19.829
So the Bible says, Daniel, having found out about this and knowing he was under
00:33:19.829 --> 00:33:21.703
a death sentence, went to his house,
00:33:21.866 --> 00:33:25.662
told his friends Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah about the matter,
00:33:25.796 --> 00:33:30.405
urging them to ask the God of the heavens for mercy concerning this mystery.
00:33:30.608 --> 00:33:35.759
So Daniel and his friends would not be destroyed with the rest of Babylon's wise men.
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:41.419
Facing certain death, they get together and pray and ask for mercy.
00:33:41.419 --> 00:33:45.515
And that's huge. And the other one would be Acts chapter 10,
00:33:45.666 --> 00:33:47.837
which is kind of a twofold prayer deal.
00:33:48.128 --> 00:33:54.009
First of all, you have Cornelius, who is praying and seeking the Lord,
00:33:54.009 --> 00:33:59.163
doesn't even know Jesus, but his prayers to God come to the attention of God.
00:33:59.302 --> 00:34:05.029
And then you have Peter praying and resting on top of his house.
00:34:05.029 --> 00:34:13.839
Then God takes those incidences and basically launches the movement that reaches
00:34:13.839 --> 00:34:15.531
the known world. You know, this is...
00:34:15.879 --> 00:34:20.744
This is how kind of the gospel began to go to the Gentiles, to you and me.
00:34:20.744 --> 00:34:24.054
So I love those prayer stories there.
00:34:24.054 --> 00:34:28.174
Yeah, yeah, yeah. God worked in both of those situations where maybe the guys
00:34:28.174 --> 00:34:31.584
that were praying didn't even anticipate it. God has his ways.
00:34:32.144 --> 00:34:35.036
Well, hey, why don't you pray for us, Dr. CJ? All right.
00:34:35.918 --> 00:34:39.836
Father, we do pause, first of all, to acknowledge that you are God,
00:34:39.952 --> 00:34:43.204
creator, maker of heaven and earth. You are sovereign.
00:34:43.944 --> 00:34:48.524
You know all things. You are all powerful. Forgive us because at times we have
00:34:48.524 --> 00:34:49.754
not treated you that way.
00:34:49.754 --> 00:34:55.024
And we did that indirectly by trying to take things from you and trying to do it our way.
00:34:55.024 --> 00:35:00.924
Lord, through this podcast and as we think about what it means to surrender to you, what it means to
00:35:01.284 --> 00:35:05.605
acknowledge you in our life, Father, I pray that you would remove a lot of these
00:35:05.848 --> 00:35:11.554
distractions and help our pastors and listeners to know that distractions are
00:35:11.554 --> 00:35:14.764
what's causing us to step away from your presence.
00:35:14.915 --> 00:35:18.744
And so, Lord, would you give them this wisdom, just a tidbit,
00:35:19.104 --> 00:35:23.454
Father, for them to know that my spending time with you is far more productive
00:35:23.454 --> 00:35:25.427
than me trying to solve problems.
00:35:25.549 --> 00:35:29.934
And I do also pray, Lord, that for many who may not see, who are just blinded
00:35:29.934 --> 00:35:35.844
by physical realities and the tangible problems, Lord, that you would open their eyes,
00:35:36.784 --> 00:35:41.244
see who you are, see you at work, see all that you have already done,
00:35:41.704 --> 00:35:44.814
and to lean into you rather than to try to solve.
00:35:44.814 --> 00:35:49.544
On our own, or even just trying harder. I think that's the adage that we have.
00:35:49.544 --> 00:35:53.404
Try harder next time. Try better next time. And Lord, I just ask that you would
00:35:53.404 --> 00:35:57.651
give our pastors, our leaders, our listeners wisdom to just surrender,
00:35:57.930 --> 00:35:59.984
to say, Lord, I want what you want.
00:36:00.925 --> 00:36:05.099
I want to see you at work, and I want to be able to see you at work.
00:36:05.544 --> 00:36:09.464
So Father, we pray these prayers, and many who might be struggling with unbelief,
00:36:09.804 --> 00:36:12.429
and none of us would say that out loud, but Father,
00:36:12.767 --> 00:36:17.760
Help us overcome our unbelief or lack of belief. We pray this in Jesus' name.
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:24.490
Amen. Well, thank you, Dr. CJ. For all of our listeners, next week we have more on this topic.
00:36:24.490 --> 00:36:28.690
For Dr. CJ and I, it will be about two minutes from now, but we're going to
00:36:28.690 --> 00:36:32.950
be talking about, we each have a similar hero of the faith in prayer,
00:36:32.950 --> 00:36:35.170
Andrew Murray, the South African pastor.
00:36:35.170 --> 00:36:38.120
We'll talk about some of the prayer stories in his life.
00:36:38.120 --> 00:36:42.380
We're going to talk about how to seek a God-presence-centered life.
00:36:42.380 --> 00:36:46.990
And we're really going to focus in on how pastors and church leaders can help
00:36:46.990 --> 00:36:53.080
their churches develop a culture of prayer. And we will close out by recommending
00:36:53.080 --> 00:36:57.349
some great resources in the prayer realm. So stay tuned for that.
00:36:57.622 --> 00:36:59.555
Dr. CJ, thank you for your time.
00:36:59.677 --> 00:37:00.646
Thank you for having me.
00:37:00.890 --> 00:37:08.441
Great wisdom there from Dr. CJ. I'm so appreciative of him as a guy and for his time on the podcast.
00:37:08.684 --> 00:37:12.510
And now I'm going to bring in my guest host, Pastor Christopher Cole.
00:37:12.702 --> 00:37:19.458
And we are going to buckle in because it's time to do something hard and painful.
00:37:19.587 --> 00:37:25.925
All right. Are we ready, Pastor Chase, to dive into this? I'm going to open your bacon soda for you.
00:37:26.093 --> 00:37:26.564
Thank you.
00:37:26.778 --> 00:37:29.595
And we want to hear the sound of the...00:37:30.303 --> 00:37:32.230
All right. It's not very fizzy.00:37:32.310 --> 00:37:34.278
It had a little pop there.00:37:34.895 --> 00:37:35.998
Oh, gosh.00:37:37.288 --> 00:37:42.481
This smells like it's going to take about 10 years off of my life. You smell that?00:37:45.016 --> 00:37:46.305
That is not good, brother.00:37:46.676 --> 00:37:51.968
I hate to say this in front of a former man in blue, a former law enforcement00:37:51.968 --> 00:37:53.906
officer, but it smells like bacon.00:37:54.505 --> 00:37:56.248
This does not smell like bacon.00:37:56.248 --> 00:37:59.228
It smells like bad burnt bacon. How about that?00:38:00.248 --> 00:38:04.718
As a former law enforcement officer, this does have some odor peculiarities00:38:04.718 --> 00:38:09.619
that are similar to methamphetamine, which is not a good thing, by the way.00:38:10.468 --> 00:38:12.840
Folks, this smells awful.00:38:13.428 --> 00:38:15.218
It is not good. It is not good.00:38:15.218 --> 00:38:18.077
And it has sugar in it, and that's frightening.00:38:18.361 --> 00:38:22.928
But we are going to be bold and press on. Okay. Salute.00:38:23.248 --> 00:38:25.246
Cheers. Here we go. To our health.00:38:26.611 --> 00:38:27.088
Wow.00:38:27.728 --> 00:38:28.288
Whoa.00:38:31.608 --> 00:38:32.998
Are you getting the smoky00:38:32.998 --> 00:38:39.642
Flavor i just feel like i'm drinking a pig and it's weird.00:38:41.409 --> 00:38:46.953
I don't know that I would say it's like drinking a pig.00:38:48.117 --> 00:38:54.397
Do you know that the cooking stuff, you drip in liquid smoke?00:38:54.757 --> 00:39:01.742
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a little bit like drinking liquid smoke to me with a sweetness to it.00:39:02.345 --> 00:39:08.980
Okay, so I'll say this for it. You were right. It's not worse than Lester's Fixin's Ranch.00:39:09.772 --> 00:39:13.317
The front end is not very pleasant to me.00:39:13.317 --> 00:39:14.050
It is not.00:39:14.189 --> 00:39:16.210
The aftertaste is...00:39:16.686 --> 00:39:18.147
It's kind of cream soda-y.00:39:18.147 --> 00:39:23.427
Not bad. It's not terrible. It doesn't leave a terrible taste in your mouth.00:39:23.427 --> 00:39:27.527
And you know what? After the ranch soda and some of the other things we've tried,00:39:27.527 --> 00:39:29.079
I kind of appreciate that.00:39:29.503 --> 00:39:34.307
But it does leave an aftertaste in your mouth. Sort of like that greasy aftertaste00:39:34.307 --> 00:39:38.703
you get in your mouth when you've had some bad bacon. It's sort of like that.00:39:40.735 --> 00:39:44.207
It just sort of like covers your mouth with a film here.00:39:44.207 --> 00:39:46.607
It does a little bit. All right, I'm going to take one more taste,00:39:46.607 --> 00:39:49.292
and that's probably all I can endure.00:39:52.278 --> 00:39:56.490
It just hits hard going down. It's strong.00:39:57.417 --> 00:40:01.617
Well, Pastor Chase, what is your recommendation?00:40:01.617 --> 00:40:07.887
How many Spurgeons would you give the Lester's Fixin' Bacon Soda?00:40:07.887 --> 00:40:11.417
There's a look on your face for those who can't see this. We're not sure if00:40:11.417 --> 00:40:14.132
this is going to be live on video or just you're getting the audio.00:40:14.317 --> 00:40:20.309
There is a look on Pastor Chase's face that looks like someone stuck a dirty sock in his mouth.00:40:20.691 --> 00:40:26.112
Yeah, yeah, that's about how I feel. I would recommend Charles Spurgeon avoid this soda.00:40:26.112 --> 00:40:30.912
He's already got enough health problems as it is with his cigar smoking and00:40:30.912 --> 00:40:38.671
gout and all that kind of stuff. But I'm going to give this zero Spurgeon's out of five. Zero.00:40:38.823 --> 00:40:45.672
Zero. As I recall, we gave the Lester's Fixin's Ranch Soda like negative Spurgeon's.00:40:45.672 --> 00:40:47.072
Negative five Osteen's.00:40:47.072 --> 00:40:50.152
Yeah, we gave it Osteen's, right. That's what we did.00:40:50.152 --> 00:40:52.762
It's not as bad as that. I'm not going to have nightmares about this,00:40:52.762 --> 00:40:57.052
but I'm also not going to—I can't think of a use scenario. Right.00:40:57.052 --> 00:40:59.341
You would not want to bring this back.00:40:59.533 --> 00:41:02.342
No. No. I'm going to pour this out in the sink.00:41:02.342 --> 00:41:04.572
You would not bring this to a friend's party.00:41:04.952 --> 00:41:09.713
Depends on the friend. I might. You know, it depends. I wouldn't bring it to00:41:10.056 --> 00:41:12.762
Pastor Jason's house, who recommended00:41:12.762 --> 00:41:16.622
this beverage for us, because he's a good guy and a good neighbor.00:41:16.622 --> 00:41:22.130
And he is over there, dare I say, almost giggling with glee at us having to00:41:22.339 --> 00:41:24.434
drink this foul beverage.00:41:25.112 --> 00:41:27.532
Lord, do not hold this sin against him.00:41:27.912 --> 00:41:33.272
Well, we would want to forgive our neighbors as we have been forgiven. Amen.00:41:33.932 --> 00:41:41.606
And this is not a recommendation. I also will concur. This is definitely a zero Spurgeons.00:41:41.832 --> 00:41:47.632
I don't think it strays into Osteen category, but it is not something I would00:41:47.632 --> 00:41:49.652
ever want to consume again. Yeah.00:41:49.992 --> 00:41:52.642
It could be very happy never doing so ever again.00:41:52.642 --> 00:41:56.192
It smells a little like bad bacon. It doesn't taste like bacon.00:41:56.212 --> 00:41:59.112
No. It tastes like something cooked, but not.00:41:59.263 --> 00:42:05.358
And it's got that smoky, and it also does leave kind of a film in your mouth. That's not pleasant.00:42:05.753 --> 00:42:07.361
Okay, Lester, do better. Do better.00:42:07.972 --> 00:42:08.197
Do better.00:42:08.759 --> 00:42:13.716
We will close out today with a call to prayer for the yellow card initiative00:42:13.716 --> 00:42:15.606
that you have been hearing about.00:42:15.926 --> 00:42:23.144
Several of our Great Commission Association Hispanic churches and our guy Enrique Ramos have been00:42:23.347 --> 00:42:27.596
passing out the yellow cards all around Levi's Stadium and other places around00:42:27.596 --> 00:42:33.096
Central California, sharing the gospel with people attending World Cup soccer00:42:33.096 --> 00:42:35.566
games and regular soccer games.00:42:35.566 --> 00:42:41.996
So that effort is going to be continuing with GCA member churches and Anthony00:42:41.996 --> 00:42:44.676
Ferguson and the Yellow Card Initiative team.00:42:44.676 --> 00:42:50.066
So pray for great fruitfulness for that. You can check out updates on our Facebook00:42:50.066 --> 00:42:53.306
page, which is facebook.com GCASBC.00:42:54.846 --> 00:42:59.716
Or you can go to our website GCASBC.org.00:42:59.716 --> 00:43:04.276
And if you want to find show notes for the podcast or subscribe,00:43:04.276 --> 00:43:08.936
all you got to do is go to Apple Podcasts or any other place and just search00:43:08.936 --> 00:43:11.161
for Every Church Flourishing.00:43:11.301 --> 00:43:16.406
And the show notes are at our website, everychurchflourishing.com.00:43:16.726 --> 00:43:21.676
More of Dr. CJ next week. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for telling00:43:21.676 --> 00:43:23.300
your friends and sharing the news.00:43:23.520 --> 00:43:25.934
Good day to you and Godspeed.
