WEBVTT
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Hey guys, this is Chase. Same great guest as last week. Today, Dr.
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Kristen Ferguson, Vice President of Gateway Seminary just outside of LA and
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an expert on women in ministry and artificial intelligence.
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Here is a clip from Dr. Ferguson.
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That's a good leader to say like, I don't really care about how I look in this,
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but I care about the mission.
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Broadcasting from the north central coast of California and the beautiful Redwoods,
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the Every Church Flourishing podcast is all about helping churches,
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leaders, and pastors find health, encouragement, practical advice,
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soul care, and resources that work together to build up your local fellowship
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and the broader kingdom of God.
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Join hosts Pastor Chris Cole and Dr. Chase Thompson from the Great Commission Association, led by Dr.
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Mike Stewart, as they explore the frontiers of ministry and aim for the goal
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of making every church flourish.
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Hello, everybody, and welcome into episode number 16 of the Every Church Flourishing Podcast.
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We are a ministry of the Great Commission Association of North and Central California.
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And if you're a pastor or church leader out west and you're looking for a ministry
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team association to join up with, we would love to hear from you,
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just like we heard from a pastor just this week about possibly joining up with the GCA and SBC.
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Our website is gcasbc.org. That's how you can get in touch with us.
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Today, another action-packed episode, Gateway Seminary Vice President, Dr.
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Kristen Ferguson joins us again, and our co-hosts are school superintendent,
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Lynette Lozano, and women's ministry expert, Dr.
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Kathy Smith. Today, we talk about how women in the church are a fundamental
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key to church flourishing that no wise leader should ever overlook.
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We're also going to talk to Dr. Ferguson about AI.
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Can artificial intelligence take the place of counseling, pastors,
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sermon prep, all of that kind of stuff?
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How much should Christians lean on AI?
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And is there some warnings that we should probably take heed of in the realm
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of artificial intelligence?
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We've also got Cal Baptist bat student JC back with us today for a review of
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the South's favorite cherry beverage, Cheerwine. Does it actually contain wine?
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Finally, we're going to talk about prayer and pleading the blood of Jesus.
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Is that a thing? Is it biblical?
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Is there power, special power, in pleading the blood of Jesus?
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Maybe not, but we will discuss one key to faithful, power-packed prayer that
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is indeed biblical and is also often overlooked. That will be after the interview with Dr.
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Ferguson. For now, let's get right to it as I take a backseat in the beginning
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and let Dr. Smith and Ms. Lynette interview Dr.
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Ferguson on Women in Ministry. If you are a church leader or pastor and you
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aren't really interested in the topic of women in ministry and want to fast
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forward to the rest of the podcast,
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actually, let me stop you right there and point you right on over to Romans
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chapter 16, a letter of Paul almost certainly delivered to that church by Phoebe.
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A female in ministry who was a benefactor of Paul himself.
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Read through that list of shout outs in Romans 16. If you don't really think
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highly of women in ministry, lots of females there.
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And if you think Paul didn't care about women in ministry,
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think again, listen well and understand the church will not flourish without
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the ladies of the church in their God ordained scripture called roles. So let's go.
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Okay, so I'm going to take a step back and we're going to talk about women in
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ministry in California and the West.
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And Kathy's got some questions and Miss Lynette, you jump in and I'm just going
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to kind of stretch out and get warmed up for our AI discussion,
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which is going to finish out the podcast.
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But for now, you ladies take it away.
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So Kristen, do you think that the church in California and the West in general
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is properly and so effectively?
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Mobilizing women in ministry roles? I guess there's never a moment in time that
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all people have been used to their maximum extent to do ministry.
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Like the scripture said, like Jesus said, like the harvest is plentiful and the workers are few.
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So I guess in keeping with that, I would probably say a little bit, but there's more.
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Or yes, but more.
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I don't think that women are not being used.
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I think I see in every church I've ever participated in, I see a numerous amount
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of women doing very critical gospel work in every church.
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I can think of my church, numerous women who, if they were not doing the service
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part that they are doing, our church would be much less effective at reaching
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our community for Christ.
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So I think that women are absolutely being used in our churches.
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But is there more to do?
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Like, yes, there's so much more to do.
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And there's so many ways to use the skills and giftings and talents and networks
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even and special access that only women get.
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I think about my friend Carola Manriquez, who also works here at Gateway. She goes to our church.
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She's involved in the after hours ministry. Are you guys familiar with that? It's through NAMM.
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Yeah. And so they go kind of like in the middle of the night down into L.A.
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And attempt to share the gospel and minister to women who are in sex trafficking.
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And there's so much that only women really can do.
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There are men involved in that ministry, and they serve a very particular kind
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of role in that ministry.
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But, you know, these are special moments that we need to deploy a lot more women
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to get a lot more work done. I agree.
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And being a woman in ministry, because my husband is not a pastor,
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I can relate to a lot of what pastors' wives go through, the loneliness and
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not being able to have anybody to talk to.
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Just being in the church and really involved, I think that it's getting better,
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but I think purposely...
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Putting into women and letting them know it's okay, because a lot of them feel
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restrained, and they step back because they don't feel it's their place.
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So giving them the permissions, but that needs to come from the leadership and
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the deacons and the pastor to allow those things to happen.
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And I think it's happening slowly.
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It's not happening as fast as it could be, which would actually enhance the
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church and the ministries, because I see women are the ones that are stepping up.
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A lot of the men, some men do, but more women, they're like,
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come on, put me out there. Let's do this.
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Let's do this. Yeah. And I think that one of the things that I know is very
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typical in churches is a lot of kind of stage time, pulpit time,
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Bible teacher time dedicated to
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really explaining and understanding those Bible passages that we all love and
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submit ourselves to about the different ways that men and women both serve in
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different contexts and different roles.
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But sometimes I think we lack a little creativity and opportunity that we lay
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before women because we are so concerned with getting those passages just right,
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which don't get me wrong, that's very important.
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We have to understand those passages so we know what God intends for the way that we serve.
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But in that same conversation and in that same moment,
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opening up all of our eyes to the variety of ways that God needs and wants women
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to involve themselves in the kingdom work is, I think, very exciting.
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We want those passages to be taught with like, we want to get up right now and go do it.
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You know, we want some energy and urgency for the gospel ministry.
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Even though there are different roles, there's so much work to be done that
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is very critical and very important.
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I think along those lines, sometimes it's easy to get caught in certain things that women
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Don't necessarily do in our complementarian view.
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And we forget, like you're saying, to be creative and encourage ways to show
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women where they can serve.
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And I know that I've seen several statistics lately that there's a lot of women
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that are leaving the church, especially younger women. And I read into some
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of why those reasonings were, why people think that, and they're still trying to figure out a lot of it.
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But some of it is because women, the way that we approach women's ministry and
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then women hasn't really changed in some churches in a really long time.
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And so it's focused that they some one statistics that even in 50 years,
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it hasn't changed that much.
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So we're still thinking of women as being the primary volunteers in a lot of ways in the church.
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But women are really busy these days, more so than they were.
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Well, not necessarily more so, but in a different way than they were 50 years ago.
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And so how the church approaches that has to start to look a little bit different.
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And I think that's challenging. But I know, Kristen, you and I have talked about
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missional complementarianism and how that works.
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And I saw you had written something about it's God's order fuels the mission
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or something like that is what you said.
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And I think that's so important to focus on the mission and how we move forward in that.
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So I don't know if you can share some more insight into that in ways that that
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churches can really help to encourage women to be on mission and to use those gifts.
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So they're not going elsewhere and finding another place to serve,
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but they can also find that in the local church.
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Yeah, absolutely. Missional complementarianism is just a term that my husband
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and I use when we shepherd other couples and we talk about this topic.
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And it's the best way we have found to describe the way we think that the Bible
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talks about complementarianism.
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We're very committed that a pastor should be a man, a pastor elder should be
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a man, and women come alongside and have critical roles to play in kingdom expansion.
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And so missional complementarian really helps us take our eyes to not just focus
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on the role part of it, not just like, well, you do these things and I do these things.
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I think it's helping us understand like, what are we all do?
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What are we as the body of Christ?
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Even non-pastoral men have a part in this whole missional opportunity to share
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the gospel and take the gospel to the kingdom.
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And if you focus on the kingdom of God and see, okay, we each have a part to
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play, whether it's gifting, role, whatever it is, we all have a part to play.
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It helps really drive that you are to be utilized.
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You have a part to play. It's not just you stand over there while the rest of us do the thing.
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It's we are all doing this thing together, but we all have different parts to play in it.
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Just like 1 Corinthians 12 teaches us about spiritual gifting and the members of the body.
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That's literally what we're talking about when it comes to men and women as
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well, that we all have a role to play, even if women are not playing that leadership pastoral role.
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I think that's really important. And part of that,
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I think it involves helping women to know how to make disciples and sometimes
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like being intentional to do that is sometimes maybe we assume that people know
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more than they do. At least I've, I've come to find that, that,
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People know they're supposed to make disciples, but sometimes they're not really
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sure what that looks like.
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So how could the church also help women in that way? Women need the Word of
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God, and they need it in a serious way.
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Like, we want our women to be faithful to interpret the Word of God accurately.
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If it's important for our pastors to interpret the Word of God accurately,
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it's important for the people who are volunteering in the kids' ministry And
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the people who are also doing discipleship or counseling or sharing the gospel,
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every person at our church, we want them to know the Bible and we want them
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to interpret it faithfully so that they can take the gospel faithfully to the nations.
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So I think one of the most important things is don't give any group,
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including women, don't give them the light stuff.
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We all need meat. We all need the word of God.
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And we all need to grow in it seriously. It's a skill-building opportunity to
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develop your hermeneutic, to develop your understanding of the Old and New Testament,
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And to be able to understand the nuances of various genres in Scripture and
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how to get the main point out of a passage and how to interpret that faithfully
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and apply it faithfully. Women need to know that stuff.
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And so don't skimp on that stuff. Give them the meat and let them do what it
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says to do, and they'll find ways to serve God faithfully in that. That's a great word.
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But before we shift to AI, do you ladies have any more questions or you want
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to go further up, further in on this conversation? I love the idea that you're
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talking about, which is missional complementarianism.
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Anything else that we need to say about all that?
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Well, I think there's a lot more that could be said that probably not fit in this time frame.
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Okay, well, I think especially...
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Again, people in other parts of the country don't know how populous the West is.
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The church that is not engaging every member in ministry and understanding the
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spiritual gifts and the missional call of every member and understanding that
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the people who followed Jesus around,
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yes, there were 12 dudes, but there were also this group of women that were
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essentially always there, taking care of their needs, managing things,
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doing all of this incredible work. ministry.
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When we don't understand that dynamic, buddy, we are missing out on touchdowns
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we should be scoring and fruit of the kingdom we should be making.
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Kathy, one of the things that you and I had talked about on that same note,
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Chase, that you just reminded me of is really examining what leadership is in Scripture.
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As far as I'm aware, in Scripture, leadership is not just the leader goes and does stuff.
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Leadership is a deep connection with the people around and a faithful leader
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will take account of all of the resources, all of the skills under their care.
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And deploy them strategically for the gospel. So it's not a very good leader
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who's like, I have this huge asset here with all these skills and resources,
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but you don't do anything. You just stay over there because I'm the leader.
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And I think sometimes it's like the leader is insecure that this follower is
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going to outshine or something.
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But that's actually a good, that actually looks good on the leader.
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For the leader who says you deploy somebody who has skill and who has ability.
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That's a good leader to say, like, I don't really care about how I look in this,
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but I care about the mission.
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Even if other people are doing lots of good things and I'm championing them
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and I fall into the background like a Barnabas, you know, and I deploy other
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people to do it. That's good leadership.
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And I think often women are sometimes to the side or it's a bubble on the side
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and we're part of the meat. We're part of the core.
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We're part of the church. And we want to be deployed. We want to go and we want
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to share and we want to risk it all.
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We want women in our churches to go across the world and die for the sake of the gospel.
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Like, we don't want to just do the light stuff. We want to serve God with everything
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we have, even if it costs us everything.
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And I think looking at women in our churches like that will help our pastors
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deploy them effectively.
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Yeah. Well, it also helps them not to be marginalized because they think when
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they're just kind of set off in a corner, which is true for the special needs
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population. I was a director of special needs before.
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And the same thing can happen with them anytime any group of people,
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not just a gender, but a group of people is marginalized.
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They're not really being deployed in the way that the Lord wanted.
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And if we look at Jesus' life, He didn't marginalize any group.
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He didn't even marginalize women. He engaged them. He engaged sick people.
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He engaged poor people. He engaged rich people.
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He engaged all the groups of people.
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And I think that's a great reminder. Thank you.
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Yeah, it's not without reason that our missionary giving heroes in the Baptist
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church are Annie Armstrong and Lottie Moon.
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And not a couple of guys, because we have these great examples of ladies who
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are incredibly fruitful and braver than 99.99% of men out there on the mission
00:17:45.972 --> 00:17:48.252
field, mobilizing and doing the work of the kingdom.
00:17:48.532 --> 00:17:51.032
And maybe we don't honor them enough.
00:17:51.372 --> 00:17:56.652
Okay, let's shift gears again and talk a little bit about artificial intelligence in the church.
00:17:56.832 --> 00:18:01.892
And I want to get from you, Dr. Ferguson, your best tips on how to use AI for
00:18:01.892 --> 00:18:07.952
writing my sermon. yeah i'm just kidding yeah that's a horrible thing yeah.
00:18:07.952 --> 00:18:10.552
You know it's so easy you know it really cuts your time down
00:18:10.552 --> 00:18:16.332
It can man i barely have to do anything these days with gemini and chat creepy
00:18:16.332 --> 00:18:20.312
no i'm just kidding but one thing i've noticed and i bet you guys have too there
00:18:20.312 --> 00:18:27.752
is a very vocal group of people online and even in person who are almost like
00:18:27.752 --> 00:18:30.072
revolutionaries against AI.
00:18:30.392 --> 00:18:36.032
They think it's wicked and evil. But I just saw a survey that Barna and Glue
00:18:36.032 --> 00:18:38.652
put out that I found really, really interesting.
00:18:39.101 --> 00:18:46.721
And it basically showed that pastors and Christians in general have a slightly
00:18:46.721 --> 00:18:53.901
more positive view of AI in terms of saying AI is making the world a better
00:18:53.901 --> 00:18:55.781
place than the general population.
00:18:56.061 --> 00:19:02.721
Now, at the same time, they're more likely to agree with the statement that
00:19:02.721 --> 00:19:05.561
AI is a threat than the general population.
00:19:05.561 --> 00:19:08.881
So I don't know how you can out of one side of your mouth say it's making the
00:19:08.881 --> 00:19:11.841
world a better place and the other side you say it's a big threat.
00:19:11.981 --> 00:19:15.221
But look, so many people are using AI right now.
00:19:15.361 --> 00:19:16.881
I think in 10 years it is going to
00:19:16.881 --> 00:19:21.421
be as ubiquitous and commonplace as the Internet is, maybe even more so.
00:19:21.781 --> 00:19:26.501
Dr. Ferguson, what are your thoughts on AI? How are you encountering it in the seminary?
00:19:26.801 --> 00:19:31.201
Is it vexing your life that students are writing all their papers with AI?
00:19:31.461 --> 00:19:32.921
What are your views here?
00:19:33.081 --> 00:19:36.281
Oh, my goodness. Thank you. I love this topic, actually.
00:19:36.801 --> 00:19:40.641
About a year and a half ago, I did my academic convocation.
00:19:41.121 --> 00:19:44.301
Every semester, one of the faculty members gives a paper.
00:19:44.741 --> 00:19:50.301
I saw that. Yeah. And so my academic convocation was on educating humans in the age of AI.
00:19:50.761 --> 00:19:55.461
So I have lots of opinions and thoughts about this. And I am a huge AI user.
00:19:55.741 --> 00:20:02.081
So full confession, I do use AI. But I promise you, I did not use AI to formulate
00:20:02.081 --> 00:20:03.561
anything that I said today.
00:20:05.541 --> 00:20:09.841
So, you know what's really interesting is because I studied a lot of online
00:20:09.841 --> 00:20:15.361
education, I see so many patterns that are very similar as far as like this reaction.
00:20:15.858 --> 00:20:20.858
To a new technology. So like when online education became more and more popular,
00:20:21.298 --> 00:20:24.658
there are these two camps of like, it's the worst thing ever,
00:20:24.818 --> 00:20:25.858
it's going to ruin everything.
00:20:26.098 --> 00:20:30.138
Or it's like the best thing ever. And it's going to be our savior of all things.
00:20:30.298 --> 00:20:33.558
It's like always these two like polar opposites.
00:20:33.758 --> 00:20:39.518
And I've always felt that neither are looking at it in quite the right way.
00:20:39.718 --> 00:20:45.138
And that's very common in AI literature, even secular discussions about AI.
00:20:45.438 --> 00:20:49.318
It's either going to be Armageddon or utopia, you know, either one,
00:20:49.578 --> 00:20:50.598
maybe a little boat somehow.
00:20:50.758 --> 00:20:55.098
I don't know. But it's either going to be the end of humans as we know it,
00:20:55.258 --> 00:20:59.178
or humans are going to basically enter into heaven now because we're never going
00:20:59.178 --> 00:21:00.658
to have to do anything ever again.
00:21:00.938 --> 00:21:06.538
And so I think I think what's important is that we actually take a little more
00:21:06.538 --> 00:21:10.538
time and don't opt for one of those easy camps.
00:21:10.858 --> 00:21:14.938
I truly think it's just going to take more work. In order to land at a truly
00:21:14.938 --> 00:21:19.958
biblical perspective of AI, it's not going to be enough to just say no completely
00:21:19.958 --> 00:21:23.578
to it or yes completely to it. That's the easy route either way.
00:21:24.032 --> 00:21:25.952
I think if you decide no to AI
00:21:25.952 --> 00:21:30.252
and you're just like, it's going to be Armageddon, let's try to stop it.
00:21:30.352 --> 00:21:34.692
I just think you're in a fruitless endeavor. Like, I agree with you, Chase.
00:21:35.132 --> 00:21:40.592
This is absolutely becoming inescapable and it's becoming integrated in all
00:21:40.592 --> 00:21:43.852
of the tools that we've typically already adopted, that the whole,
00:21:43.852 --> 00:21:47.972
you know, United States has already adopted and it's becoming integrated in
00:21:47.972 --> 00:21:50.092
all of these things, in our phones and things like that.
00:21:50.092 --> 00:21:54.532
So it's going to be, unless we're going to take the route of like a more Amish
00:21:54.532 --> 00:21:59.472
kind of withdrawal, it's going to be very part of our culture.
00:21:59.472 --> 00:22:04.432
So we have to do the hard work ethically to determine how we're going to engage,
00:22:04.692 --> 00:22:07.652
if we should engage, why we should engage or why not.
00:22:07.852 --> 00:22:13.092
And so I think what becomes very important in this conversation is our image
00:22:13.092 --> 00:22:17.192
bearing nature and our role as the image of God.
00:22:17.802 --> 00:22:23.382
And what are the things in this world that are only for humans?
00:22:23.602 --> 00:22:25.942
What are those things that are only for humans?
00:22:26.202 --> 00:22:31.982
A good example of this, like kind of analogy, is like, I could not deploy my
00:22:31.982 --> 00:22:34.542
AI robot to go on a date with my husband.
00:22:34.902 --> 00:22:37.742
That doesn't work. It requires my personhood.
00:22:38.562 --> 00:22:44.982
I, as a human person, need to engage with my husband as a human person.
00:22:44.982 --> 00:22:48.982
Those are moments that are not replaceable by AI.
00:22:49.242 --> 00:22:52.902
And the same is true with our relationship with God. I think it's one of the
00:22:52.902 --> 00:22:59.782
biggest threats to Christianity in the age of AI is that it is so easy to get answers.
00:22:59.902 --> 00:23:04.182
And we want a bullet point, easy to read.
00:23:04.562 --> 00:23:09.082
It takes us two seconds to get through it. When reading the Word of God takes
00:23:09.082 --> 00:23:12.542
some effort. It takes some discipline. It takes interpretation.
00:23:13.042 --> 00:23:17.722
It takes understanding the biblical context. It's harder than going to AI and
00:23:17.722 --> 00:23:19.682
being like, what should I do? What should I do in this situation?
00:23:20.102 --> 00:23:24.302
And I think it's going to be so tempting for us as Christians to constantly
00:23:24.302 --> 00:23:29.642
go to AI instead of going to God in prayer or instead of going to the word of God.
00:23:29.802 --> 00:23:34.042
And so there's going to have to be this conscious understanding that I as a
00:23:34.042 --> 00:23:40.682
human being, as an image bearer of God, I'm created to know God through his word.
00:23:40.682 --> 00:23:47.882
And I am created to commune with the living, real, most high God through prayer
00:23:47.882 --> 00:23:50.582
and through doing His will in this world.
00:23:50.602 --> 00:23:52.922
And I cannot do that.
00:23:53.416 --> 00:23:58.816
In AI. Like AI is not the replacement for a real active living relationship
00:23:58.816 --> 00:24:00.356
with the real living God.
00:24:00.536 --> 00:24:04.336
AI is not the living God. And I almost think there's this analogy with like
00:24:04.336 --> 00:24:08.516
idols, where like idolatry in the Old Testament, they, you know,
00:24:08.676 --> 00:24:13.916
we hear in Isaiah where it says they don't speak and they don't hear. AI actually talks.
00:24:14.256 --> 00:24:18.036
So it's really tempting to replace God.
00:24:18.396 --> 00:24:21.736
And we don't say it that way. We wouldn't be like, oh, I worship AI.
00:24:21.976 --> 00:24:24.176
No one is saying that they're worshiping AI.
00:24:24.516 --> 00:24:29.676
But in an effect, in reality, functionally, we could be going to AI and depending
00:24:29.676 --> 00:24:34.736
on AI for so much of what we do day to day that we're replacing our dependence with God.
00:24:34.976 --> 00:24:39.376
So we need to think as Christians about our image-bearing nature,
00:24:39.616 --> 00:24:46.076
our unique role and dignity and responsibility in this world to know God and
00:24:46.076 --> 00:24:49.756
to make him known and then put AI in its right place.
00:24:49.916 --> 00:24:52.736
But I do think AI can serve some of that.
00:24:53.196 --> 00:24:58.216
Like, for instance, I think AI is so helpful to understand other worldviews
00:24:58.216 --> 00:25:02.856
and like asking it questions about like, okay, what would someone from this
00:25:02.856 --> 00:25:04.676
culture think about in this way?
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:11.679
And like, there's just so many helpful things like strategizing and ideas and
00:25:11.679 --> 00:25:15.599
things that can come from development with AI, but it can never replace our
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.659
intimate connection with God and his work. So hopefully that's a snapshot.
00:25:20.459 --> 00:25:26.139
That's a great perspective. I will add that to this, that if somebody is not
00:25:26.139 --> 00:25:31.839
afraid of using Google to do research, they shouldn't be afraid of using AI.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:39.019
AI is different than Google, and it can be profoundly effective at certain searches
00:25:39.019 --> 00:25:40.699
if you use it at the right way.
00:25:40.859 --> 00:25:47.299
And Dr. Ferguson has warned us against the dangers of leaning on AI for spiritual
00:25:47.299 --> 00:25:50.919
guidance from God and for intimacy with God. And I think that's a huge one.
00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:55.039
I'll add to that, on the other hand, on the other side of the equation,
00:25:55.199 --> 00:26:00.219
in AI, we've talked years about the Turing test and the ability of an artificial
00:26:00.219 --> 00:26:05.759
intelligence to fool a majority of humans that they are talking to a human.
00:26:05.939 --> 00:26:09.219
And I think we're past that. And I think most researchers would agree.
00:26:09.779 --> 00:26:12.959
We've passed that. The AI can pass as humans.
00:26:13.199 --> 00:26:16.139
And in addition to the danger you're warning us about,
00:26:16.459 --> 00:26:20.259
I would add to it, and this I think is a significant fear as well,
00:26:20.399 --> 00:26:27.119
is that people will rely on AI for deep spiritual conversations that they should
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:33.599
be having in the body of Christ, that it will become a replacement for intimacy in the church,
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:36.179
maybe even intimacy between a husband and a wife.
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:40.059
But AI doesn't disagree with you as much.
00:26:40.179 --> 00:26:43.179
It doesn't challenge you as much. It doesn't confront you as much.
00:26:43.299 --> 00:26:47.179
It doesn't know your deepest sins and desires and heart.
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:51.099
It knows a lot about you, but it can't know you as well as somebody else in
00:26:51.099 --> 00:26:54.879
the body of Christ. It will not be iron sharpening iron, so to speak.
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:59.739
And even if you tell it, tell me all my weaknesses and criticisms and,
00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:00.759
you know, tell me all these things.
00:27:01.221 --> 00:27:06.421
Like you can you can make AI accommodate the weaknesses that you think are in
00:27:06.421 --> 00:27:10.781
AI, like remove all of your phrases and just give it to me straight.
00:27:10.941 --> 00:27:13.881
Like you can craft AI to do that for you, which is kind of like,
00:27:14.121 --> 00:27:16.121
OK, maybe if we just design it right.
00:27:16.261 --> 00:27:21.821
But I think that the core is even if you can design AI to to effectively do
00:27:21.821 --> 00:27:27.701
a lot of those things at the at the end of the day, AI is not real. It is not a real being.
00:27:28.201 --> 00:27:35.061
We have a real living God who actually works in this world, who really exists,
00:27:35.361 --> 00:27:39.801
who wants to know us, who is available to us, and who's died to save us.
00:27:39.901 --> 00:27:45.381
We have a God who is able to do far more than AI could ever do.
00:27:45.521 --> 00:27:49.481
God can make a way for things to happen that AI could never do.
00:27:49.621 --> 00:27:53.521
And I think it's going to be so tempting to try to think that AI can solve all
00:27:53.521 --> 00:27:57.921
the problems when we have a real and living God who is actively at work through
00:27:57.921 --> 00:28:01.281
our problems to do more than just solve problems.
00:28:01.461 --> 00:28:03.621
He's bringing about his kingdom in this world.
00:28:03.881 --> 00:28:04.741
Yeah. Fantastic.
00:28:05.441 --> 00:28:09.181
AI can't love either. It can't have feelings or emotions.
00:28:09.501 --> 00:28:13.921
And we know that's true, but we sometimes do this thing.
00:28:14.001 --> 00:28:19.061
My family kind of play around and ask questions to our AI just to be funny.
00:28:19.201 --> 00:28:24.361
And so I asked her if she loved me and she said, I'm incapable of,
00:28:24.481 --> 00:28:26.841
I haven't figured out human emotions yet.
00:28:26.981 --> 00:28:30.081
And I think that's so really important though. It's where that was funny.
00:28:30.577 --> 00:28:36.737
But it's also like a real reminder that emotions are meant for humans and God
00:28:36.737 --> 00:28:40.637
to experience together. It's not something that can be replaced artificially. So true.
00:28:41.057 --> 00:28:44.957
So true. Absolutely, Kathy. Well, this has been a fantastic conversation.
00:28:44.957 --> 00:28:48.277
I have one more quick question before we close out.
00:28:48.697 --> 00:28:52.217
Dr. Ferguson, I'm going to ask this of everybody. The question is going to be, what are you reading?
00:28:52.537 --> 00:28:57.777
And Dr. Ferguson, I know you read smart people books like Jason Thacker's The
00:28:57.777 --> 00:29:01.397
Age of AI and like Heart Deep Teaching and Ms.
00:29:01.537 --> 00:29:04.617
Ortlund's Help, I'm Married to the Pastor. I know you read smart people books
00:29:04.617 --> 00:29:07.097
and maybe your answer is going to be a smart person book.
00:29:07.257 --> 00:29:11.137
But if that's the book you read for fun, a smart person book, that's great.
00:29:11.297 --> 00:29:15.037
But I'm going to ask, what are the books you're reading right now or listening
00:29:15.037 --> 00:29:19.117
to? Because I count that. What are the books right now you guys are listening to?
00:29:19.617 --> 00:29:21.697
Fun might be too whimsical.
00:29:23.057 --> 00:29:26.337
I read for fun and I read for the good reasons too.
00:29:26.517 --> 00:29:30.117
But what are you guys reading for fun these days that enriches your soul,
00:29:30.317 --> 00:29:33.997
that blesses you, that is maybe a step above streaming?
00:29:34.297 --> 00:29:38.877
Are you talking about Magic Treehouse with my kids? Because that's active every night.
00:29:39.677 --> 00:29:43.437
Those aren't bad books. I enjoy some of those books with the kids.
00:29:43.617 --> 00:29:47.277
Some of them are tedious and terrible, but Magic Treehouse is pretty good.
00:29:47.497 --> 00:29:50.357
I got some variety for you, Chase.
00:29:50.497 --> 00:29:54.097
It is not just smart people books. I don't even know if I've got time for a
00:29:54.097 --> 00:29:56.337
lot of Smart People books, but I'm looking around.
00:29:56.537 --> 00:30:00.957
I've got some VBS materials over here that I've been reading very intently.
00:30:02.237 --> 00:30:07.057
Magic Treehouse, for sure, at home. But I also have our biblical counseling.
00:30:07.397 --> 00:30:10.917
Oh, it's backwards on the screen. But our biblical counseling professor recommended this one.
00:30:11.097 --> 00:30:15.017
To me, it's called The Gospel for Disordered Lives by Robert Jones,
00:30:15.177 --> 00:30:17.317
Kristen Kellen, and Rob Green.
00:30:17.677 --> 00:30:23.257
And I'm really enjoying that as well. I really appreciate so much personal growth
00:30:23.257 --> 00:30:26.837
from biblical counseling and just their dependence on the Word of God.
00:30:26.837 --> 00:30:30.437
So I really enjoy reading biblical counseling books, but I'm enjoying that one a lot as well.
00:30:31.010 --> 00:30:32.510
Fantastic. Ladies?
00:30:32.850 --> 00:30:38.470
I, too, am reading some curriculum books to revamp our stuff through ACSI.
00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:43.490
And we're in the middle of doing a survey for our K-8 school.
00:30:43.490 --> 00:30:45.910
So looking for stuff for that.
00:30:46.130 --> 00:30:50.070
But also looking forward to a conference that I'm going to attend in Dallas,
00:30:50.370 --> 00:30:53.110
the Outcomes Conference, in a couple weeks.
00:30:53.290 --> 00:30:57.970
So they always have some great books for personal growth. I'm ready for some personal growth books.
00:30:58.190 --> 00:30:58.990
All right.
00:30:58.990 --> 00:31:03.110
I'm actually rereading this book with a friend, but it's Instruments in the
00:31:03.110 --> 00:31:05.030
Redeemer's Hand by Paul David Trigger.
00:31:05.210 --> 00:31:10.150
And it's a great biblical counseling resource as well, but it's just been just a great reminder.
00:31:10.962 --> 00:31:14.942
In mentoring relationships, but in my own personal relationships.
00:31:15.342 --> 00:31:20.422
Also, I think it's just how I love others, my family, my church,
00:31:20.662 --> 00:31:24.002
everything, and seeing things through a different lens has been really great.
00:31:24.202 --> 00:31:28.042
And I'm also going through the See For Yourself.
00:31:28.062 --> 00:31:33.062
It's a new kind of Bible study that came out by Kelly Needham.
00:31:33.302 --> 00:31:36.042
Well, her husband wrote one too for men, but this one's for women.
00:31:36.042 --> 00:31:44.102
And I'm reading it not as a Bible study, but as a way to help others to learn how to study the Bible.
00:31:44.362 --> 00:31:46.322
And so that's, I mean, that's fun for me.
00:31:46.742 --> 00:31:51.642
It's not as fun as maybe as Magic Treehouse, but it is really exciting.
00:31:52.222 --> 00:31:55.662
But just as important, Kathy, just as important. It is very important.
00:31:56.002 --> 00:32:00.342
It is very important. And it's not like a work for me. Like I just find those
00:32:00.342 --> 00:32:02.002
kinds of things very interesting.
00:32:02.382 --> 00:32:05.282
Awesome. Well, you guys are probably a lot more mature than me.
00:32:05.282 --> 00:32:10.022
I feel pressured to say I'm reading a lot of the early church fathers right now, and that is true.
00:32:10.182 --> 00:32:14.802
But what I really like to read is mystery books, and I plow through them.
00:32:14.982 --> 00:32:19.682
And right now I'm reading the Mysterious Benedict Society series, which is for kids.
00:32:19.842 --> 00:32:25.982
And I'm not a kid, but I enjoy it. And I'm also reading the Grantchester series by James Bruncey,
00:32:26.082 --> 00:32:30.002
which is about a Church of England pastor called Sidney Chambers,
00:32:30.042 --> 00:32:35.822
who is a detective, which is probably my fantasy to be a pastor and detective
00:32:35.822 --> 00:32:38.322
on the side. It's a really interesting book.
00:32:38.702 --> 00:32:42.622
Sidney Chambers is a good bit more liberal than I am, even though he believes
00:32:42.622 --> 00:32:43.862
in the resurrection of Jesus.
00:32:44.102 --> 00:32:50.362
But he constantly struggles with putting his wife and his child in the right
00:32:50.362 --> 00:32:55.222
place of priorities in his life and ministry while he's working and solving
00:32:55.222 --> 00:32:59.182
all these mysterious detective mystery kind of things and murders.
00:32:59.182 --> 00:33:04.462
It's high-level writing, I think. I appreciate the struggle with prioritizing for a pastor.
00:33:04.813 --> 00:33:09.193
I've thoroughly enjoyed myself, and this has been a very edifying conversation.
00:33:09.413 --> 00:33:13.593
Thank you so much for your time, and thank you all for listening in.
00:33:13.713 --> 00:33:17.153
What a blast to have had Dr. Ferguson with us for the last two episodes.
00:33:17.153 --> 00:33:20.193
She represents Gateway Seminary very well.
00:33:20.533 --> 00:33:24.133
Next up, we continue our discussion of women in ministry with Dr.
00:33:24.273 --> 00:33:28.893
Kathy Smith, and we will also have Pastor Anthony Ferguson on, Dr.
00:33:29.093 --> 00:33:32.673
Kristen Ferguson's husband, to talk about the Yellow Card Initiative,
00:33:32.773 --> 00:33:39.153
which is an SBC outreach aimed at those attending the World Cup games in the Bay Area this summer.
00:33:39.293 --> 00:33:43.833
We're also going to have Pastor CJ talking to us about prayer yet again,
00:33:43.833 --> 00:33:45.833
and it's going to be a fantastic episode.
00:33:46.173 --> 00:33:51.373
Hey, today for the show, we're going to be reviewing North Carolina's own Cheerwine.
00:33:51.493 --> 00:33:57.413
How has one small independent soft drink managed to survive for literally over
00:33:57.413 --> 00:34:02.873
100 years and not be bought out by Pepsi or Coke or anybody else.
00:34:03.093 --> 00:34:06.773
I'm going to give you some Cheerwine trivia. You ready, JC? Let's hear it. Okay.
00:34:07.153 --> 00:34:10.733
Number one, it's not wine, but it's wine colored.
00:34:10.993 --> 00:34:16.013
You can kind of see that, right? Wine colored. It got its name from that color.
00:34:16.233 --> 00:34:18.413
It's cherry and deep burgundy.
00:34:18.713 --> 00:34:22.733
And it's a non-alcoholic cherry beverage made in Salisbury, North Carolina.
00:34:22.933 --> 00:34:26.693
Number two, It was created because of a sugar shortage.
00:34:26.973 --> 00:34:32.753
The cherry made it to where you could have a really nice, sweet tasting soda with less sugar.
00:34:33.053 --> 00:34:40.373
And number three, this has been owned by the same family, the Peeler family, for over 100 years.
00:34:40.813 --> 00:34:43.553
So what do you think, JC? How does it smell? Smells good. Yeah,
00:34:43.693 --> 00:34:47.513
I'm excited to try this one. I was hoping I could smell the cherry.
00:34:47.713 --> 00:34:51.573
I can't smell it yet. By the way, this was donated to the show.
00:34:52.093 --> 00:34:56.753
Every Church Flourishing Podcast, everychurchflourishing.com by Virginia listener
00:34:56.753 --> 00:34:59.433
Jesse Worrell. Well, let's give it a shot.
00:35:00.052 --> 00:35:07.452
Mmm. It definitely tastes the cherry there. It's way more cherry than cherry Coke, right?
00:35:07.912 --> 00:35:12.632
Absolutely. Since 1917, this is full on. This is not a diet,
00:35:12.632 --> 00:35:15.032
so it's definitely sweeter than diet soda.
00:35:15.512 --> 00:35:20.532
Got a good mouth feel. It's a little bit like a few cherries were squeezed into
00:35:20.532 --> 00:35:22.432
this thing. It's really cherry forward.
00:35:22.732 --> 00:35:26.552
Honestly, I think it's great. I'm kind of tasting, I don't know why,
00:35:26.672 --> 00:35:28.892
it kind of gives off Coke Zero with cherry.
00:35:29.172 --> 00:35:32.832
I'm a big fan of Coke Zero. That's some bonus points as well.
00:35:33.012 --> 00:35:35.672
I like the cherry taste though. I do too. I love this.
00:35:36.052 --> 00:35:43.312
This is not, as you say, it's not very different from Coke Zero or Cherry Coke,
00:35:43.372 --> 00:35:46.432
but it's just a little more cherry. And I'll give you a bonus.
00:35:46.812 --> 00:35:49.252
It's made, and I don't know if you can see this on the video,
00:35:49.452 --> 00:35:55.272
it's made with real cane sugar, not high fructose corn syrup. So that's great.
00:35:55.772 --> 00:35:59.412
All right, JC, out of five Spurgeons, what are you going to give it? Kind of tricky.
00:35:59.872 --> 00:36:07.112
It's not got a lot going on. It tastes good and I enjoy it, but it's not super exciting.
00:36:07.332 --> 00:36:12.952
But for a regular soda, I would say it's good, but on the exciting scale,
00:36:13.112 --> 00:36:17.692
like, man, this is an interesting soda, kind of takes it down some points. I would say.
00:36:18.434 --> 00:36:25.674
Let's go with 3.9 Spurgeons. Solid taste, well-rounded, but not super interesting.
00:36:25.994 --> 00:36:29.134
I got you. You're looking for something a little bolder. I'm going to give it
00:36:29.134 --> 00:36:31.994
four and three quarters Spurgeons. I would say this is delicious.
00:36:32.294 --> 00:36:37.574
It's tasty. It's simple, as you say, but well worth drinking.
00:36:38.094 --> 00:36:41.534
Okay. Thanks, JC. Enjoy your salmon and honey butter. Sounds good.
00:36:41.674 --> 00:36:42.974
Thank you. Thank you, JC.
00:36:43.394 --> 00:36:48.594
One more topic, and it's an important one. Should Christians plead the blood
00:36:48.594 --> 00:36:52.694
of Jesus and a better key to triumphant prayer?
00:36:52.894 --> 00:36:56.734
So the central importance of blood in both the Old Testament and the New Testament
00:36:56.734 --> 00:37:00.014
is illustrated by the fact that the phrase, the blood,
00:37:00.294 --> 00:37:06.494
appears over 125 times in most major English translations of the Bible,
00:37:06.494 --> 00:37:10.474
and the word blood itself appears nearly 400 times.
00:37:10.474 --> 00:37:18.514
Perhaps you have heard somebody use the phrase, quote, I plead the blood of Jesus, as in P-L-E-A-D.00:37:18.754 --> 00:37:22.594
You've heard that maybe in a prayer, church setting, or something like that.00:37:22.774 --> 00:37:27.434
Generally, when people say that, they mean something like, I apply the blood00:37:27.434 --> 00:37:28.874
of Jesus to this situation.00:37:29.114 --> 00:37:34.594
Essentially, asking for Jesus' blood to cover us, or cover a prayer request,00:37:34.674 --> 00:37:38.274
or cover a sick person, or some sort of situation in some way.00:37:38.274 --> 00:37:43.774
In many ways, pleading the blood of Jesus is kind of a fairly new practice in the church,00:37:43.774 --> 00:37:49.534
and it seems to have its roots in the 1906 Azusa Street Revival in California00:37:49.534 --> 00:37:53.274
under the ministry of the Pentecostal preacher William Seymour.00:37:53.914 --> 00:37:57.914
Who often did plead the blood of Jesus over those he prayed for.00:37:58.034 --> 00:38:00.994
Is that a biblical practice?00:38:01.414 --> 00:38:06.694
Well, strictly speaking, it's not. There seems to be no example in the Bible00:38:06.694 --> 00:38:13.554
of anybody using the phrase, I plead the blood of Jesus, nor can I find any example of...00:38:13.618 --> 00:38:16.738
Really anything close to such a thing.00:38:16.898 --> 00:38:21.518
Many who plead the blood of Jesus cite Revelation 12, verse 11,00:38:21.758 --> 00:38:26.258
which says, They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word00:38:26.258 --> 00:38:31.718
of their testimony, for they love not their lives even unto death.00:38:31.838 --> 00:38:38.178
Now, as Pastor Wanjiro Nganganga of TGC Africa notes, At first glance,00:38:38.538 --> 00:38:43.318
this verse, Revelation 12, 11, seems to suggest that believers should invoke00:38:43.318 --> 00:38:49.278
the blood of Jesus to gain fresh victory over Satan and his works in their daily lives.00:38:49.558 --> 00:38:54.758
However, a deeper look at the context discloses a very different message.00:38:54.998 --> 00:39:01.358
The victory has already been accomplished through Christ's finished work on the cross.00:39:01.498 --> 00:39:05.738
Revelation 12 is part of a vision describing the conflict between God's people00:39:05.738 --> 00:39:12.718
and Satan, And Revelation 12, 11 teaches us that believers overcome Satan by two means.00:39:12.938 --> 00:39:17.978
The first is the blood of the Lamb, referring to Christ's atoning sacrifice00:39:17.978 --> 00:39:21.358
on the cross, which secures their redemption.00:39:21.918 --> 00:39:27.738
It represents the full payment for sin and the triumph over Satan's accusations.00:39:28.038 --> 00:39:32.878
See, for instance, Colossians 2, 14, 15, Revelation 1, verse 5.00:39:32.878 --> 00:39:38.118
The second is the word of their testimony, which underscores their faithfulness00:39:38.118 --> 00:39:40.138
and perseverance in the gospel.00:39:40.418 --> 00:39:46.318
Again, see Revelation 19.10. A plain reading of Revelation 12.11 in its proper00:39:46.318 --> 00:39:53.738
context reveals that it isn't instructing believers to plead or apply Jesus'00:39:54.058 --> 00:39:57.918
blood in prayer for victory over daily circumstances.00:39:57.918 --> 00:40:03.638
Instead, it points to the fact that this victory has already been accomplished00:40:03.638 --> 00:40:07.278
through Christ's finished work on the cross.00:40:07.438 --> 00:40:11.298
There is indeed power in the blood of Jesus, but that power is the power of the blood of00:40:11.350 --> 00:40:16.570
is not ours to command any more than angels are ours to command.00:40:16.570 --> 00:40:21.550
And I'm not really sure what pleading the blood is meant to accomplish.00:40:21.890 --> 00:40:27.570
We don't have magic phrases or incantations in the Bible or in the church,00:40:27.730 --> 00:40:33.550
although some people do pray in the name of Jesus and use that phrase in Jesus'00:40:33.790 --> 00:40:36.770
name as sort of a magic incantation.00:40:36.770 --> 00:40:42.930
There aren't hidden or secret phrases or expressions known only to a few of00:40:42.930 --> 00:40:46.670
the really kind of inner circle and elite Christians that,00:40:46.830 --> 00:40:54.470
when used, can particularly invoke the power of God in an extra sort of way. Think about it this way.00:40:54.570 --> 00:40:59.090
If you're praying for somebody and you use the phrase, I plead the blood of00:40:59.090 --> 00:41:07.130
Jesus, do you expect that your use of that phrase gives your prayer extra power or oomph?00:41:07.370 --> 00:41:09.410
Does it make your prayer more effective?00:41:09.690 --> 00:41:15.470
Do demons flee when we plead the blood of Jesus, but hang around and kind of00:41:15.470 --> 00:41:18.010
laugh at us when we don't use that phrase?00:41:18.190 --> 00:41:21.370
Does actually somehow, someway.00:41:21.721 --> 00:41:29.621
God hear that and either spiritually or physically or something actually pour00:41:29.621 --> 00:41:37.521
out a measure of the blood of Jesus on a person or on a situation when we say that? I don't think so.00:41:37.701 --> 00:41:43.461
I don't think pleading the blood of Jesus gives extra power and effect to our prayers.00:41:43.461 --> 00:41:50.321
And when we think that that does or things like that do, it's almost like we're00:41:50.321 --> 00:41:52.861
being kind of superstitious.00:41:53.201 --> 00:41:59.861
Our faith can rest in the power of our word phrases and our practices rather00:41:59.861 --> 00:42:02.161
than God or Jesus himself.00:42:02.221 --> 00:42:07.301
It reminds me kind of the phrase, if you've ever watched like vampire movies00:42:07.301 --> 00:42:12.441
or whatever, the blood of Christ compels you or the power of Christ compels you.00:42:12.621 --> 00:42:17.641
Like I said, you see that in exorcist-type movies or horror movies or whatever.00:42:17.781 --> 00:42:22.001
In most of those movies, it's clear that they expect that their accoutrements00:42:22.001 --> 00:42:27.121
of exorcism, like holy water, specific phrases, signs of the cross.00:42:27.701 --> 00:42:34.881
Ornate crosses, etc., will have this kind of power to drive demonic beings away.00:42:35.181 --> 00:42:42.981
God has power over demons. Water blessed by mortal humans does not.00:42:42.981 --> 00:42:48.601
Jesus rules over demons and commands them to depart, but phrases and signs and00:42:48.601 --> 00:42:52.381
even cross-shaped items do not have power.00:42:52.833 --> 00:43:01.173
Put your faith in Christ and God and not in ceremonies or phrases or incantations or objects.00:43:01.393 --> 00:43:04.613
What has the power to drive demons away?00:43:04.813 --> 00:43:08.673
Well, here's what the Bible says, and I note that there's no magical phrases00:43:08.673 --> 00:43:10.533
or magical prayers offered here.00:43:10.773 --> 00:43:15.013
James 4, 7 says, therefore, submit to God, resist the devil,00:43:15.013 --> 00:43:16.773
and he will flee from you.00:43:17.133 --> 00:43:21.893
Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. I'm not really saying so much00:43:21.893 --> 00:43:25.153
that it is a sin to, quote, plead the blood of Jesus,00:43:25.413 --> 00:43:32.293
but I'm suggesting that we should probably distance ourselves from practices that we see no saint,00:43:32.513 --> 00:43:40.413
nobody at all doing in Scripture and that we find no basis for whatsoever in Scripture.00:43:40.413 --> 00:43:46.873
The blood of Jesus is not an abstract concept for us to control and invoke.00:43:47.153 --> 00:43:52.533
It's not our prayers. It's not our invocations, our phrases or whatever that00:43:52.533 --> 00:43:57.953
has the power to heal, to bring light to darkness, to encourage or rebuke the enemy.00:43:58.133 --> 00:44:03.273
It's Jesus Christ himself, crucified, risen, glorified, and exalted.00:44:03.493 --> 00:44:08.213
It is he who is the power and in prayer. Indeed, Christians...00:44:08.308 --> 00:44:14.888
Can become partakers of that presence and power of Christ, but not at all in00:44:14.888 --> 00:44:20.048
a spell-wielding sort of magic word, incantational way.00:44:20.248 --> 00:44:26.048
The effectual, fervent prayer of the righteous is indeed powerful in its effect,00:44:26.208 --> 00:44:30.748
as James says, but not because of some magic power,00:44:30.968 --> 00:44:35.548
but because Almighty God moves on behalf of the prayers of His people,00:44:35.548 --> 00:44:41.768
which gets us to what is indeed a key to powerful prayer that is biblical and00:44:41.768 --> 00:44:46.048
is not akin to Christian spellcasting or superstition.00:44:46.228 --> 00:44:50.988
Allow me to tag in hero of the faith and giant of prayer, George Mueller.00:44:51.328 --> 00:44:58.128
A man who cataloged and documented over 50,000 answered prayers,00:44:58.408 --> 00:45:02.748
30,000 of which were answered the same day he prayed them.00:45:03.393 --> 00:45:09.193
I want you to hear that number again. He literally wrote in his journals of00:45:09.193 --> 00:45:16.233
50,000 prayers he prayed that were answered specifically by God,00:45:16.373 --> 00:45:23.173
and 30,000 of them were answered the same day he prayed them.00:45:23.433 --> 00:45:27.253
Has there ever been a more mighty man of prayer than George Mueller?00:45:27.433 --> 00:45:29.553
If there was, I don't know of them.00:45:29.553 --> 00:45:37.013
This is what he says about a somewhat unknown key to powerful prayer.00:45:37.193 --> 00:45:41.493
It is as plain to me as anything that the first thing the child of God has to00:45:41.493 --> 00:45:46.233
do morning by morning is to obtain food for his inner man.00:45:46.353 --> 00:45:51.253
As the outward man is not fit for work for any length of time except we take00:45:51.253 --> 00:45:54.873
food, and as this is one of the first things we do in the morning,00:45:55.053 --> 00:45:58.173
so it should be with the inner man, the inner person.00:45:58.173 --> 00:46:01.813
We should take food for that as everyone must allow.00:46:02.013 --> 00:46:04.113
Now, what is the food for the inner man?00:46:04.373 --> 00:46:07.293
Not prayer, but the word of God.00:46:07.453 --> 00:46:13.573
And here again, not the simple reading of the word of God so that it only passes00:46:13.573 --> 00:46:19.433
through our minds just as water runs through a pipe, but considering what we read.00:46:19.913 --> 00:46:23.133
Pondering over it and applying it to our hearts.00:46:23.133 --> 00:46:28.853
When we pray, we speak to God. Now, prayer, in order to be continued for any00:46:28.853 --> 00:46:34.413
length of time in any other than a formal manner, requires, generally speaking,00:46:34.673 --> 00:46:37.713
a measure of strength or godly desire.00:46:37.713 --> 00:46:43.053
And the season, therefore, when this exercise of the soul can be most effectually00:46:43.053 --> 00:46:51.513
performed is after the inner man has been nourished by meditation on the word of God,00:46:51.633 --> 00:46:56.073
where we find our father speaking to us to encourage us.00:46:56.299 --> 00:47:00.179
To comfort us, to instruct us, to humble us, to reprove us.00:47:00.299 --> 00:47:07.639
We may therefore profitably meditate with God's blessing, though we are ever so weak spiritually.00:47:08.059 --> 00:47:10.079
The weaker we are, the more we00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:15.539
need meditation on the word of God for the strengthening of our inner man.00:47:15.759 --> 00:47:21.399
There is thus far less to be feared from wandering of mind than if we give ourselves00:47:21.399 --> 00:47:25.819
to prayer without having had previously time for meditation.00:47:26.299 --> 00:47:33.659
I dwell, says Mueller, so particularly on this point because of the immense00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:39.179
spiritual profit and refreshment I am conscious of having derived from it myself,00:47:39.179 --> 00:47:47.079
and I affectionately and solemnly beseech all my fellow believers to ponder this matter.00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:53.779
Dear friends, the hidden power of prayer is not at all in a particular incantation00:47:53.779 --> 00:47:59.639
or phrase we pray, but if we would have powerful prayer lives,00:47:59.879 --> 00:48:05.499
let us do as Mueller suggests and go first to the Word of God and feast on it00:48:05.499 --> 00:48:09.599
and meditate on it so that built up in faith,00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:16.759
we might pray prayers that are powerful and effectual because we are praying00:48:16.759 --> 00:48:22.199
in faith to the one who can indeed move mountains with but a word or a thought.00:48:22.439 --> 00:48:26.399
Well, I want to point you as we close out to our website for the podcast.00:48:27.219 --> 00:48:31.719
Everychurchflourishing.com. It's so helpful when you leave a review for us on00:48:31.719 --> 00:48:35.319
Apple Podcasts and tell a friend about the show.00:48:35.439 --> 00:48:40.099
And I also want to point you to the website for our Association of Churches,00:48:40.179 --> 00:48:41.799
which sponsors this podcast.00:48:41.799 --> 00:48:49.159
You can find it at gcasbc.org. Go check that out today and see what's all is00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:51.659
going on in the Great Commission Association.00:48:52.099 --> 00:48:55.419
Thanks for listening. Good day to you and Godspeed.
